11 things to know about VE Commodore and BF Falcon

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by MickyB

I actually find the XR8 incredibly easy to differentiate from the 6 cylinder Falcon's due to the 'lonely' power bulge. From a distance you would never be able to pick out V badging or different headlights, the SS-V might be good, but they're crazy to bag the XR8 for not being easily spotted.

Yeah not sure what all that is about. VE over load maybe?

[XR-ENVI]

Originally Posted by joshf2

that was an email sent out from the ford marketing dept to their staff from what ive heard

yes we recieved a forwarded copy form my brother who works at Ford Motor Company the email orignated from
Falcon / Fairlane Brand Team
Ford Motor Company of Australia

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by XPcoupe

A set of four new tyres on the current Commodore Executive costs approximately $500 RRP. A set of four new tyres on the VE Commodore Omega costs $928 RRP (or $232 RRP each). This represents an 85% price increase
In comparison, a set of four replacement tyres on the BF Falcon XT, Futura or Fairmont costs just $569.52 RRP (or $142.38 RRP each)
VE Commodore SS-V 19" tyres RRP = 3,789 for a set of four (or $947.40 RRP each)
VE Commodore optional 20" tyres RRP = $4,316 for a set of four (or $1,079 RRP each)
.[/I][/SIZE]

What is the difference in trye size make etc between VZ Executive & VE Equivalent to cause the trye price to go up so much?

Re Space Saver on my BA XR6 my spare wheel is a 16" steel is this a space saver as my alloys are 17" & wider? The BF XR6 is it the same deal as BA?

[Wezza]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Yeah they liked it so much they said this

"The most disappointing aspect is the raucous nature of the 180kW engine and its unpleasant sound under duress. It’s not that bad but because the rest of the car is so good, it stands out as not belonging .

Likewise the revised four-speed auto which though improved beyond belief compared to the previous model still has no grade control logic for engine braking at low speeds or during a hill descent. The lack of a sequential manual shift compounds this and will leave most drivers riding the brakes in urban drives as this car really likes to roll. With 40km/h speed limits, both these features are increasingly important and can be found in most rivals."

Sorry i was getting a bit tired of your one eyed comments, i just had to register. Mate, can't you acknowledge that Holden have built a great car?? I love Holdens, but i will acknowledge that Ford have a great car in the BF Falcon.

Here are some good comments made by the drive team:

Glenn Butler, senior editor, Drive:
To Tony Hyde and his dedicated team of engineers: bravo. VE is the best handling, smoothest riding Commodore I’ve ever driven. I’m not going to pre-empt any Holden v Ford comparisons, but Ford should be worried about becoming the perennial bridesmaid in that particular two-car race.

Bruce Newton, contributor, Drive:

Calais-V:
The Calais V is undoubtedly the best looking. Truly world class in its presentation of sports luxury.

SS-V
In conditions that Noah would welcome the SS-V was poised, responsive, stable, nimble and awesomely quick.

It is undoubtedly Australia’s new muscle car King.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big claims, i can't see why any of them would lie. I guess we will have to wait to get a drive of them. But i think supporters of both the Blue Oval & Holden shoudl be happy that there is great vehicles coming out on both sides.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

What is the difference in trye size make etc between VZ Executive & VE Equivalent to cause the trye price to go up so much?

Re Space Saver on my BA XR6 my spare wheel is a 16" steel is this a space saver as my alloys are 17" & wider? The BF XR6 is it the same deal as BA?

Omega went from 15 inch 205's? to 16 inch. The spare in your car isn't a space saver cause its a normal full size wheel, space savers are much smaller than normal size, like a 185 or something like that. They are only supposed to be driven for 100kms at a reduced speed. Basically space savers are only designed to get you to a tyre place for a new one, whereas you could keep driving on a normal Falcon spare for as long as you needed to.

[MickyB]

Originally Posted by Wezza

Sorry i was getting a bit tired of your one eyed comments, i just had to register. Mate, can't you acknowledge that Holden have built a great car?? I love Holdens, but i will acknowledge that Ford have a great car in the BF Falcon.

Here are some good comments made by the drive team:

Glenn Butler, senior editor, Drive:
To Tony Hyde and his dedicated team of engineers: bravo. VE is the best handling, smoothest riding Commodore I’ve ever driven. I’m not going to pre-empt any Holden v Ford comparisons, but Ford should be worried about becoming the perennial bridesmaid in that particular two-car race.

Bruce Newton, contributor, Drive:

Calais-V:
The Calais V is undoubtedly the best looking. Truly world class in its presentation of sports luxury.

SS-V
In conditions that Noah would welcome the SS-V was poised, responsive, stable, nimble and awesomely quick.

It is undoubtedly Australia’s new muscle car King.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big claims, i can't see why any of them would lie. I guess we will have to wait to get a drive of them. But i think supporters of both the Blue Oval & Holden shoudl be happy that there is great vehicles coming out on both sides.

Oh well, I don't think Ford should worry too much considering how well the VY sold when the BF was clearly streets ahead in chassis setup. As for muscle car king, people still bought SS's when the XR6T was destroying it in every comparison ever printed.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Omega went from 15 inch 205's? to 16 inch. The spare in your car isn't a space saver cause its a normal full size wheel, space savers are much smaller than normal size, like a 185 or something like that. They are only supposed to be driven for 100kms at a reduced speed. Basically space savers are only designed to get you to a tyre place for a new one, whereas you could keep driving on a normal Falcon spare for as long as you needed to.

Thanks mate

My 16" spare has 80kms orange sticker on it but thats probally just for legal purposes etc as the stell wheel & the trye is same as XT except ones a 60 series Dunlop & ones 65 series.

[#Russ#Es#]

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

Thanks mate

My 16" spare has 80kms orange sticker on it but thats probally just for legal purposes etc as the stell wheel & the trye is same as XT except ones a 60 series Dunlop & ones 65 series.

I think BossXR8 was referring to distance (100km) where you (I assume) are talking about speed (80km/h)

[Wezza]

Originally Posted by MickyB

Oh well, I don't think Ford should worry too much considering how well the VY sold when the BF was clearly streets ahead in chassis setup. As for muscle car king, people still bought SS's when the XR6T was destroying it in every comparison ever printed.

What has that got to do with the Drive editors saying that this is the new muscle car king?? That claim was never made about the VZ SS? Some of you people need to open your minds a little bit...............

[MickyB]

Originally Posted by Wezza

What has that got to do with the Drive editors saying that this is the new muscle car king?? That claim was never made about the VZ SS? Some of you people need to open your minds a little bit...............

I'm saying the VZ SS sold well when the BF was getting all the plaudits, now that the roles may be reversed I am saying that Ford shouldn't worry because it didn't stop Holden's selling well when Falcon's were clearly superior.

[Wezza]

^^
Fair enough. But it looks like they're both great cars now.

[Black thunder]

when does ford next model come out??

[MickyB]

Originally Posted by Wezza

^^
Fair enough. But it looks like they're both great cars now.

Agreed, competition is what makes both of them great. Being biased I eagerly await Ford's reply, but I do respect that the VE appears to be a very well put together vehicle.

[rushing on acid]

as a motor mechanic i wonder if those lion tamers have found the problem with the vt - vz (especially vz) power steering problems and brake shudder problems and 5 second acceleration delay problems( vz commos) etc etc...we get fleet cars left right and centre at work. when we get a vz come through the doors the first thing we do when it goes up on the hoist is tighten the hose clamps on the power steering hose ( 15cm long r/h side between radiator and motor) because they leak oil there from factory and also tell the drivers to go back to holdon and tell those idiots to change their power steering rack and pump under warranty because they are ****ing out oil!

[Bluehoon]

WHat is it with Holden and paying for Air Conditioning???

We aren't in 1986 anymore :

[Dazza XLT]

Some things should just come as standard! A Spare Wheel and Aircon comes into that category in my opinion. As if the fleet people are going to purchase a car without air-con and and a spare!

[Ultimate]

Good read. BF all the way ftw.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Phoon Hoon

The weather report from the SSV test drive, as reported on: drive.com.au

So, the worst conditions possible in which to get to know VE

and...

In conditions that Noah would welcome

and...

But on this gloomy, dank day

and...

Perhaps it was a calibration glitch, perhaps a reflection of the wet conditions

It obviously rained for two days, then. : : :

Guess it's never been herd to rain for 2 days over your way then :nutsycuck

Originally Posted by HSE2

Yeah they liked it so much they said this

"The most disappointing aspect is the raucous nature of the 180kW engine and its unpleasant sound under duress. It’s not that bad but because the rest of the car is so good, it stands out as not belonging .

Likewise the revised four-speed auto which though improved beyond belief compared to the previous model still has no grade control logic for engine braking at low speeds or during a hill descent. The lack of a sequential manual shift compounds this and will leave most drivers riding the brakes in urban drives as this car really likes to roll. With 40km/h speed limits, both these features are increasingly important and can be found in most rivals."

I was thinking more of this

The entry-level Omega deserves the most praise in the VE Commodore line-up, even if sportier V-series versions of the flagship Calais and sporty SS models will no doubt steal the limelight.

You got to take some bad with the good, But more with this new car the good out ways the bad.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Wezza

Sorry i was getting a bit tired of your one eyed comments, i just had to register. Mate, can't you acknowledge that Holden have built a great car?? I love Holdens, but i will acknowledge that Ford have a great car in the BF Falcon.

Here are some good comments made by the drive team:

Glenn Butler, senior editor, Drive:
To Tony Hyde and his dedicated team of engineers: bravo. VE is the best handling, smoothest riding Commodore I’ve ever driven. I’m not going to pre-empt any Holden v Ford comparisons, but Ford should be worried about becoming the perennial bridesmaid in that particular two-car race.

Bruce Newton, contributor, Drive:

Calais-V:
The Calais V is undoubtedly the best looking. Truly world class in its presentation of sports luxury.

SS-V
In conditions that Noah would welcome the SS-V was poised, responsive, stable, nimble and awesomely quick.

It is undoubtedly Australia’s new muscle car King.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big claims, i can't see why any of them would lie. I guess we will have to wait to get a drive of them. But i think supporters of both the Blue Oval & Holden shoudl be happy that there is great vehicles coming out on both sides.

Mate if you registered to take me on, on this subject boy did you pick the wrong person. In this thread alone I posted 3 comments that showed huge praise for the Holden product and you pick the only post that showed where drive registers some red flags in what has been largely a glowing drive assessment. Slick Holden raised the point about the base car. Unfortunately it is a car that hasn't received overwhelming endorsement because of lingering question marks over its drive train. The other car being the SV6.


HSE2 also posted quotes from the drive section in what was a basically a negative point VE thread that contained.

"Feature for feature the SS V also has the Falcon pinned to the canvas. Even if you argue the XR8’s six-speed auto is significantly better than the SS V transmission, the L98 V8 has such an even spread of torque and superior power output that it doesn’t matter. And the way an SS V buyer can differentiate their car from lesser SV6 (for more click here) and SS models will make XR8 owners red and orange with envy"

Yeah I am one eyed alright.

The only real issue I have had with design even Drive comment on it. Straight on the flare guards don’t look that good. So that makes drive one eyed too does it?

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Guess it's never been herd to rain for 2 days over your way then :nutsycuck

I was thinking more of this
You got to take some bad with the good, But more with this new car the good out ways the bad.

Yes that is for sure. It would be fair to assume that Holden would have built on the strengths they already held, that being the V8 versions. Ford essentially left that product alone with BF and it has shown up so far with the initial drive impressions of VE. It is surely that sort to product that has been receiving unreserved praise.

The aspects that involve the floorpan, suspensions interior and steering haven't been a traditional strong suit of the Holden product. If you really want to know where a product sites it is these reviews where the media come out with the knives and proclaim how badly the previous model was. The truth is probably in the middle because right now Drive is ignoring the tremendous gains made of VT to VZ in particular the steering.

If there were to be question marks on the VE it would be around the hugely disappointing HFV6 and the retention of the 4 speed auto. Both have been improved but only back to back assessment will see if the traditional Ford advantage in these areas is enough to dilute the quantum leap in chassis dynamics VE have introduced.

[JPFS1]

I'm totally baffled how drive can come up with the assumption that the outright performance of VE will be setting benchmarks when clearly, the conditions would prove otherwise. Plenty of wrist action over at drive.

I also struggle to understand how they measured "body tightness" and claim that this and "seating position" is a whole generation ahead. That's an interesting one that's for sure. The other claims are fair and reasonable.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by JEM

I'm totally baffled how drive can come up with the assumption that the outright performance of VE will be setting benchmarks when clearly, the conditions would prove otherwise. Plenty of wrist action over at drive.

I also struggle to understand how they measured "body tightness" and claim that this and "seating position" is a whole generation ahead. That's an interesting one that's for sure. The other claims are fair and reasonable.

Maybe it was the conditions that gave them that belief? It's amazing the extra confidence you get in a car that handles better in the wet then before.

On body tightness i really can only think they mean it feels tight? doesn't feel like it might snap in half or something:P
You can feel it in older models more the looseness they have they feel like they might bend and twist and as they get older start to creek and moan.
But they said the same for the BA over the AU the body stiffness was 20-40% more?.

[turboute]

Styling wise I dont see how they can claim it is the best looking, that would be a matter of opinion. Also the fact that BA's have been around for 4 years now means that they dont have that initial wow factor anymore. As for most of the 'feel' of the car suspension stiffness, alot of the results could easily be influenced by what they want to feel. They do not mention anything about driving the old cars back to back, so if the reporter stepped out of any older car (over 5-6years old) and into the new car of course it will feel stiffer and tighter.

It will be a fairer comparison when they do back to back tests versus the old model and agains the falcons.

[4Vman]

When i raced motorcross i used to follow the magazine tests of all the new bikes, the bikes with the most upgrades used to get raved about and ranked highly when they were first released, but more often then not 12 months later after people actually used and lived with them these bikes turned out to be lemons, and their ranking against other models dropped when compared to initial glowing reports..
In a similar way the VE is a new car and initial impressions are important, but im just not sure people can tell the difference between NEW and DIFFERENT to being actually BETTER and IMPROVED after an hour or 2 driving it... again, time will tell!

[turboute]

Correct, Kawasaki's used to be bagged for having not as much power, slightly worse suspension etc, That year they were the most popular at the local motocross track because of the brutal way they delivered their power compared to the other bikes - they could get a bit more speed before hitting jumps. (not the only reason but a popular one).

Living with the commodore and driving it back to back with the VZ and BA would give better results comparitavely and will highlight the differnces properly. 1 or two days drive will not highlight much because everytime you jump into a car that you are not familiar to it feels different, whether this is perceived to be better can sometimes come down to what you want it to feel.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Darran

Some things should just come as standard! A Spare Wheel and Aircon comes into that category in my opinion. As if the fleet people are going to purchase a car without air-con and and a spare!

Yeah my VL has no air con, no P/S, drum brakes, clock dash, cheap interior etc, because it's a SL aka pov pack.

I agree with the person, who said it's not 1986 anymore. IMO I think Holden should've thought a bit more about the VE, since it's a complete new car and not a re-designed Opel and not to continue with the "No standard Air Con on base model Commodores" pattern.

In this day in age, new cars need Air Con standard, because of the climate, we live in.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

When i raced motorcross i used to follow the magazine tests of all the new bikes, the bikes with the most upgrades used to get raved about and ranked highly when they were first released, but more often then not 12 months later after people actually used and lived with them these bikes turned out to be lemons, and their ranking against other models dropped when compared to initial glowing reports..
In a similar way the VE is a new car and initial impressions are important, but im just not sure people can tell the difference between NEW and DIFFERENT to being actually BETTER and IMPROVED after an hour or 2 driving it... again, time will tell!

OK same could be said with the AU to BA, Could people have been so unhappy with the AU that the BA was just better before stepping into it?.

But i disagree with back to back testing, I think if you are experienced enough with cars you can form your own opinion of it, I believe you know what you want in the first 30min. I only needed to drive the Territory for 30min to make my opinion up on it, My brother only needed to be a passenger of it to form his own, But the drive sealed the deal.

The VE better be a whole generation ahead in the way it drives at it IS a whole generation ahead of BF now.

Credit is due for improving the car to a whole new level though,

What makes me smile is that despite being a generation behind VE, the BF XR6 is still a better car than the VE SV6.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

OK same could be said with the AU to BA, Could people have been so unhappy with the AU that the BA was just better before stepping into it?.

True, but BA has proven itself over time hasnt it.
I rarely "believe the hype" and fane-fare around anything new, marketing spin doctors are great at "selling the sizzle", mags love to gush praise to make sure companies keep spending their advertising money with them and because it sell mags.., personally i prefer to sit back, diggest what i read or hear but most importantly let time and real life experience guide me.

Unfortunatly you're cellebrating a grandfinal win (in the oppositions changerooms) before the ball has been bounced.....

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

True, but BA has proven itself over time hasnt it.
I rarely "believe the hype" and fane-fare around anything new, marketing spin doctors are great at "selling the sizzle", mags love to gush praise to make sure companies keep spending their advertising money with them and because it sell mags.., personally i prefer to sit back, diggest what i read or hear but most importantly let time and real life experience guide me.

Unfortunatly you're cellebrating a grandfinal win (in the oppositions changerooms) before the ball has been bounced.....

Yes true it did prove itself over time no doubt.
Some cars are what they say they are but some are not, Some cars get hammered and are good cars, Some get praise and they are heaps.

Mitsub 380... Guy i know thinks it's a great car but can't understand why the public can't get over what ever it is they have against it.

Toyota Avalon.. It got praise but to drive it was a lard **** American barge, ABS was sickening, Steering was just all wrong, Suspension was as soft as a baby's bottom, auto's kick down well it didn't, Interior was cheap nasty, Maybe one thing that wasn't bad was it's engine was maybe better then they described it, I felt it revved long and hard and had good mid range power, But the thing overall was a America car soft like they like them.
Some are right some are wrong, I'm right there wrong there right I'm wrong?.

But trust me i haven't entered the final series yet