March 2015 vfacts - Holden 4th Ford 7th - Page 2

bathurst77 · 08-04-2015, 12:59 PM

Well I bought a new car November last. I wanted something smaller than my Mondeo (Previous to that a Barra). I looked at Focus but ended up with a Kia Cerato.

Why? Price, equipment 7 year warranty, dealer experience, and the fact that the Mondeo was falling apart after 5 years (Air cond failed, trim coming off, driveline shunt, none of which the dealer wanted to know about)

Funny thing is I bought the kia for reasons above but now think its the best car Ive ever had! Its a joy to own and drive

Franco Cozzo · 08-04-2015, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imolator

I don't know If I would call the Focus junk, but surfing brouchures it does engine wise look old school in comparison to the much of the competition.

I wonder if the DCT in the Focus can be blamed for lack of sales. AFAIR the Focus sold approx 670 in Feb compared to the Golf which has a DSG also selling about 1780.

This March the Golf sold 2198, so it having a DSG is doing well. Cant find Focus figures for March yet but would be surprised if it improved on Feb figures.

I reckon its not product that is hurting Ford. Its the combination of years of crap marketing, corporate leadership and a really bad Dealer network.

Their previous arrogance and general treatment of their customer base has finally come home to roost.

Go take a look in the Focus section and at the moment the top three threads are all about DCT/DSG/Fancy gearbox which doesnt work issues.

I had a bit of a rant about VW in another section of the forum, they seem to be marketed as a "premium" product in this country when really they aren't that damn great, they do good interiors but they're a bastard to work on, everything except the GTI editions are under-engined and not all that reliable either.

They seem to be able to put an interior together quite well though, but the way they are designed, I'd gladly never work on VWs again to be honest, there is a reason why there is a market for VW specialist workshops.

My sister and her boyfriend both bought new VWs with DSGs, Polo and Jetta, and both have had the DSG replaced under warranty and the dealership bricked the ECU somehow on the Polo.

Warranty period is over they're getting out of them soon, and I'm suggesting my sister looks at the Kia Rio, she doesnt like the new Mazda 2.

One car you can understand, maybe Friday arvo build lemon that the odd poor bastard buys, but both cars with DSGs replaced?

galaxy xr8 · 08-04-2015, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Well I bought a new car November last. I wanted something smaller than my Mondeo (Previous to that a Barra). I looked at Focus but ended up with a Kia Cerato.

Why? Price, equipment 7 year warranty, dealer experience, and the fact that the Mondeo was falling apart after 5 years (Air cond failed, trim coming off, driveline shunt, none of which the dealer wanted to know about)

Funny thing is I bought the kia for reasons above but now think its the best car Ive ever had! Its a joy to own and drive

Yeah that 7 year factory warranty is hard to pass, the peace of mind would tempt a lot of perspective buyers.

Imolator · 08-04-2015, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Go take a look in the Focus section and at the moment the top three threads are all about DCT/DSG/Fancy gearbox which doesnt work issues.

I had a bit of a rant about VW in another section of the forum, they seem to be marketed as a "premium" product in this country when really they aren't that damn great, they do good interiors but they're a bastard to work on, everything except the GTI editions are under-engined and not all that reliable either.

They seem to be able to put an interior together quite well though, but the way they are designed, I'd gladly never work on VWs again to be honest, there is a reason why there is a market for VW specialist workshops.

My sister and her boyfriend both bought new VWs with DSGs, Polo and Jetta, and both have had the DSG replaced under warranty and the dealership bricked the ECU somehow on the Polo.

Warranty period is over they're getting out of them soon, and I'm suggesting my sister looks at the Kia Rio, she doesnt like the new Mazda 2.

One car you can understand, maybe Friday arvo build lemon that the odd poor bastard buys, but both cars with DSGs replaced?

Oh I agree, these dry clutch Dsg's were introduced to achieve efficiency in obtaining good fuel consumption figures. They are just overly complicated and the dry clutches too fragile in metropolitan stop start traffic.

The Golf and most other VW's are semi-premium, and yes they have the best put together and quality interiors in their class.

As for reliability they rate quite highly in the UK and Europe, but over there they pretty much all drive manuals compared to here where autos rule.

I reckon a huge part of the unreliability here is due to the DSG and the fact that that is what most aussies drive. Plus the 118 twin charger engine was too fragile on the high sulfur fuel used here.

Having driven a Golf Mk7 90 TSI manual, I have to say it was excellent, due to having 200nm available from just 1400 rpm. Driven normaly changing up before 4000rpm it absolutely creamed my Focus S. To get the Focus really moving you need to red line the first few gears.

Its the trade off trying to move almost 1400kg with an engine that makes max torque at 4450 rpm. The Golf Manual in comparison is only 1209kg.

I drove the 103TSI as well, it makes 250nm from just 1500 rpm. Bloody impressive, I can understand why people buy em.

**Polyal** · 08-04-2015, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Yeah that 7 year factory warranty is hard to pass, the peace of mind would tempt a lot of perspective buyers.

Your average Joe would take this everyday of the week over "better" ride and handling.

cro142 · 08-04-2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imolator

Their previous arrogance and general treatment of their customer base has finally come home to roost.

This is a major reason for Ford's decline.

I, for one, became totally fed up with Ford service years ago, and it seems they have not improved.

XR Martin · 08-04-2015, 01:48 PM

Be interesting to see whether the updated Focus gets the 1.0L Ecoboost and both the 110kw and 135kw 1.5 Ecoboost engines as it does in Europe.

2L is no longer available and the 1.6 is only on the base models. Also 1.5 Ecoboosts dont come with the power**** gearbox.

Franco Cozzo · 08-04-2015, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Be interesting to see whether the updated Focus gets the 1.0L and 1.5 Ecoboost engine as it does in Europe.

2L is no longer available and the 1.6 is only on the base models.

Hopefully it does, the only problem is it would want to be in the 125-140KW range like its competitors IMO.

Whats the 1.5 Ecoboost engine do power wise?

mik · 08-04-2015, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Without Ranger Ford would be up the proverbial creek without a paddle!!!! Anyone concerned why Fiesta, Focus, etc aren't selling ???. Alarm bells should be deafening!!
Price, dct box, (put a proper auto in the cars) come to mind.. eg Focus Titanium should be near Cruze Sri V price.. Next month Holden have Astra and Cascada in line up. New Focus and Mondeo cannt come quick enough...So sad......

humans are very good at remembering the bad stuff, you make one mis step and it stays in the memory for a long time, the DSG gearboxes, the ball joint saga on the early Terri's, one wonders what the sales would have been like today if these faults had not occured.

new2ford · 08-04-2015, 01:57 PM

If you want a better-built and more reliable VW you buy a Skoda. But being on a VAG platform is a two-edged sword for any of their companies. They do FWD extremely well and they're equipped nicely - but on the downside they share the DSG. Apart from manufacturing quality, a lot boils down to which company you deal with when some issue comes up. VW has a reputation for waiting for the customer to complain and then trying to avoid the issue, Skoda and Audi are more proactive and helpful.

In spite of what everybody assumes, they are different companies and do things their own ways, even though they share technology and have the same ownership at the top.

I did a reliability search with UK Warranty Direct and this result comparing Focus, Kia Rio, Golf and Skoda Fabia came up (hope the link works):

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/comparison

No doubt about Kia generally, but not too different from Ford and Skoda. Golf on the other hand is way down. Look at Golf's performance on transmission problems - and note the complete contrast with Fabia even though both share VAG DSG (although Skoda manufacture their own transmissions, which may explain something)!

Our Ford dealer sells and services VWs and Skodas and says VWs have the most problems.

But a 7 year warranty indicates that a manufacturer has a lot of confidence (and real experience) that there will be few problems to cost them money.

It's a pity that Australia doesn't get its European Fords from Europe - they're pretty top of the tree in quality there.

Franco Cozzo · 08-04-2015, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

It's a pity that Australia doesn't get its European Fords from Europe - they're pretty top of the tree in quality there.

They do initially, I've got a WS Fiesta which was made in Europe, then the WT came out and production shifted to Thailand.

Same thing with the first LW Focus, Europe production then shift to Thailand with MKII.

Imolator · 08-04-2015, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Hopefully it does, the only problem is it would want to be in the 125-140KW range like its competitors IMO.

Whats the 1.5 Ecoboost engine do power wise?

From memory its 135kw and 240nm, but rumors I've heard say only the Focus S and Titanium will get it (Dont know about the trend). The Ambiente will get the 1.0 Ecoboost, which will drink fuel like a drunken sailor trying to carry around a car of the Focuses weight.

Franco Cozzo · 08-04-2015, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imolator

From memory its 135kw and 240nm, but rumors I've heard say only the Focus S and Titanium will get it (Dont know about the trend). The Ambiente will get the 1.0 Ecoboost, which will drink fuel like a drunken sailor trying to carry around a car of the Focuses weight.

The current Ambiente with its NA 1.6L would be worse than the 1L Ecoboost IMO, at least it would be torquey down low, the NA 1.6L engine is too much car and not enough engine, suitable for Fiesta, which is like 250-300KG lighter.

XR Martin · 08-04-2015, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imolator

From memory its 135kw and 240nm, but rumors I've heard say only the Focus S and Titanium will get it (Dont know about the trend). The Ambiente will get the 1.0 Ecoboost, which will drink fuel like a drunken sailor trying to carry around a car of the Focuses weight.

Dunno agree about the fuel economy comment.
It has the same power as the 1.6, 40nm more (200nm in overboost) and weighs 1280kg

Imolator · 08-04-2015, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The current Ambiente with its NA 1.6L would be worse than the 1L Ecoboost IMO, at least it would be torquey down low, the NA 1.6L engine is too much car and not enough engine, suitable for Fiesta, which is like 250-300KG lighter.

Yep it makes more torque than the 1.6 na but being turbo charged has to pump lots of fuel to get it. It is only 1.0 litre after all, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

TheSneakiness · 08-04-2015, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I am pretty confident it was sarcasm.

Hope so... I mean wow I was half asleep this morning.

Re: the comment about Mitsubishi, looks like price perception is making inroads.

Aussie Falcon · 08-04-2015, 03:02 PM

What is the breakdown of what each Ford sold?

Joe5619 · 08-04-2015, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Barra xr8.....do you have any polls or reviews or stats that back this opinion up? Just wondering as I personally think it's a total cop out, and unfounded amoung the masses. The Ford brand does NOT stink......

IMHO

The facts are the sales numbers over the last 9-10 years..

kevino · 08-04-2015, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Hopefully it does, the only problem is it would want to be in the 125-140KW range like its competitors IMO.

Whats the 1.5 Ecoboost engine do power wise?

Its already in the revised Kuga at either from memory as a 110kw tune or 130 kw tune with 240nm of torque quite tasty also coming with a six speed manual option.

Ford Falcon XR6 · 08-04-2015, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Mitsubishi are selling on price.

Ford have burned themselves and their brand stinks as far as the public thinks !

Ford have got a lot of work to do....

Bring back ads like this get people excited and wanting to at least test drive the product you sell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDaLxN5FIjE
One of the best ads ever IMO still makes me want to buy a BA now.
Far better than some stuck up women going on about a kuga having more power than a Rav4.

GAFA · 08-04-2015, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

If you want a better-built and more reliable VW you buy a Skoda. But being on a VAG platform is a two-edged sword for any of their companies. They do FWD extremely well and they're equipped nicely - but on the downside they share the DSG. Apart from manufacturing quality, a lot boils down to which company you deal with when some issue comes up. VW has a reputation for waiting for the customer to complain and then trying to avoid the issue, Skoda and Audi are more proactive and helpful.

In spite of what everybody assumes, they are different companies and do things their own ways, even though they share technology and have the same ownership at the top.

I did a reliability search with UK Warranty Direct and this result comparing Focus, Kia Rio, Golf and Skoda Fabia came up (hope the link works):

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/comparison

No doubt about Kia generally, but not too different from Ford and Skoda. Golf on the other hand is way down. Look at Golf's performance on transmission problems - and note the complete contrast with Fabia even though both share VAG DSG (although Skoda manufacture their own transmissions, which may explain something)!

Our Ford dealer sells and services VWs and Skodas and says VWs have the most problems.

But a 7 year warranty indicates that a manufacturer has a lot of confidence (and real experience) that there will be few problems to cost them money.

It's a pity that Australia doesn't get its European Fords from Europe - they're pretty top of the tree in quality there.

The Kuga is built in Spain, so at least one of Ford Australia's range is built in Europe.

Shonky. · 08-04-2015, 08:34 PM

hopefully Great Wall and Cherry won't be disgracing our shores for too much longer

Bossxr8 · 08-04-2015, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Anyone have the Falcon Ute numbers?

270 odd.

1TUFFUTE · 09-04-2015, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Guys you obviously don't smoke the same weed as the Ford Management.

This was one of Fords best months ever. Champagne corks are flying everywhere through their offices, with party hats and streamers.

Ford is a premium product. It does not compete against the common brands like Holden and Toyota. Mercedes-Benz and BMW are its competitors and it beat them comprehensively. That is a win.

Get with the program guys and charge a glass to Ford.

You may laugh in jest......but what's even funnier? Holden actually says that of themselves. Theyve said for years their performance products are competing with mercs and audis.....not the other local performance cars

They've even publically stated they didn't think certain comparo tests between, for eg,Gt335 v Hsv R8.......were relevant because of said theory

1TUFFUTE · 09-04-2015, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

The facts are the sales numbers over the last 9-10 years..

Well a recent research revealed Holden as the most complained about drivers on the road. By far. That would have to reflect on sales.

And I remember another research from less then ten years ago on the impact of product recalls(the topic was 'future' brand value) and dealer level complaints, along with warranty issues. It's results included stats that Holden had over twice the dealer issues that both ford and Toyota did....with Toyota better then ford marginally.

Do a search on dealer complaints from the other brands in Australia......you think ford has a problem

We've personally never had an issue with ford, neither my family or friends....bar one bailing on a new focus because of a 3mnth wait.

So from my perspective people singling Ford out as 'dirty on the nose' is a cop out. EVERY manufacturer has it's problems!

IMHO

LoudPipes · 09-04-2015, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

So from my perspective people singling Ford out as 'dirty on the nose' is a cop out.

So is saying Holden drivers are the most complained about or that Holden has twice the dealer issues.

For all the complaints about the vehicles and drivers the telling stat is Holden sells more than Ford.

Joe5619 · 09-04-2015, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Well a recent research revealed Holden as the most complained about drivers on the road. By far. That would have to reflect on sales.

And I remember another research from less then ten years ago on the impact of product recalls(the topic was 'future' brand value) and dealer level complaints, along with warranty issues. It's results included stats that Holden had over twice the dealer issues that both ford and Toyota did....with Toyota better then ford marginally.

Do a search on dealer complaints from the other brands in Australia......you think ford has a problem

We've personally never had an issue with ford, neither my family or friends....bar one bailing on a new focus because of a 3mnth wait.

So from my perspective people singling Ford out as 'dirty on the nose' is a cop out. EVERY manufacturer has it's problems!

IMHO

How do you explain the sales numbers?? In reviews Ford has the best or close to the best product in every segment, yet the model is lucky to be in the top 5 of sales in any segment. It can't be the product, something else has to be wrong??

Windsor220 · 09-04-2015, 09:27 AM

I'm wondering if Falcon has ruined Fords image.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-04-2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I'm wondering if Falcon has ruined Fords image.

No poor customer service has ruined Fords image...

blk6t · 09-04-2015, 09:40 AM

Given the Commodore is a species soon to be extinct, it's still a fairly competitive model. Set a side the viability of manufacturing the Commodore, if it was imported in it's current form at a more competitive price, would it sustain it's current sales figures??

Keep in mind, a good percentage of those Commodores sold are V8's...which goes to show, there is still a good demand for large car with V8.

I think there are a number of issues plaguing the Falcon, dated interior, behind in the tech dept, poor sales and quality image and lack of marketing.

Every other model in the top 10 deserve to be there...