Tesla: amazing car...with one teensy drawback...

[GASWAGON]

Guys ther was a thread on here a few months ago about new battery technology breakthrough in Singapore this year......In a couple of years time ther will be batteries available that fully recharge within an hour and the life cycle with be around 20 years!

Believe me EV's are not going to be just greenie cars!

[esppwr]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How large is a 40amp petrol generator? Just put one on a trailer for long trips and would probably be more economical than a petrol car anyway

These sort of comments crack me up. Most greenies have no idea.
So it's more efficient to use a petrol generator in a trailer to power your electric car than to use a petrol engine to power your car.

A modern car converts about 35% of the energy in fuel into power
A 40 amp generator might do 40% if it's lucky.
Then you charge a battery which creates heat so you lose 10% of the 40% of the fuels energy you turned into power so your down to 36% of energy the fuel originally had.
Then you discharge the battery which again creates heat and so your down to 32% of the energy the fuel originally had
Even an electric motor ain't a 100% efficient say 95%, so now you lose another 5% so your down to 30%.
Your now driving a car that weighs more than the petrol equivelant due to the batteries and towing a trailer which adds more weight and drag in the forms of wind resistance and friction. So you ain't saving any fuel except when your stopped at the traffic lights.

Now to charging electric cars, most of Australia's power comes from burning coal so again it's bad news for the environment. Only in Tasmania were nearly all power comes from hydro would electric cars make sense but even then the technology is still way behind were it needs to be.

The plan for electric cars would be to charge during off peak(night), get you to work in the morning, be plugged in while at work and support the electricity grid as required, then get you home at night. This would allow less load on the grid during the day as your car would discharge into the grid and allow the big power companies generators to run flat out during the night optimizing there performance/efficiency. The electric cars battery need to increase in capacity, improve charge & discharge efficiency and reduce in weight for this to ever be viable. The auto industry has taken big steps in the past decade, but it's up to electricity companies to make the electric car an environmental solution.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Love the way some guy drove one to Darwin. However a huge truck with a massive generator had to follow him all the way...yep...that's clean and green...

That was part of the global green challenge. The guy was Simon Hackett, the founder of Adelaide based ISP Internode.
You can read all about it here: http://blog.internode.on.net/categor...een-challenge/

The generator truck was sent ahead of the Telsa each day to simulate having charging stations in place.

[Chopped]

I saw one driving around Sydney last month. They must have worked out how to charge it.
Way bigger than I thought too. They actually haul ar*e.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by esppwr

These sort of comments crack me up. Most greenies have no idea.

Now to charging electric cars, most of Australia's power comes from burning coal so again it's bad news for the environment. Only in Tasmania were nearly all power comes from hydro would electric cars make sense but even then the technology is still way behind were it needs to be.

Surprisingly coal fired power stations are very efficient, lots has been said about 'the long tailpipe' argument.

The efficiency of the electric motor coupled with the efficiency of the average coal power station is pretty awesome.

According to the World Resources Institute, electric powered cars recharging from coal-fired plants will reduce CO2 emissions by at least 17 to 22 percent.

Of course this doesn't account for owners with solar or the fact Teslas own free to use Super Chargers will be solar as well.

I'm far from a greenie but I respect the technology and performance of the Tesla.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

the concepts designed then have come a long way since the early 1900's

'The Lohner-Porsche's design was studied by Boeing and NASA to create the Apollo program’s Lunar rover. Many of its design principles were mirrored in the Rover’s design. The series hybrid concept underpins many modern railway locomotives, and interest in series hybrid automobiles is growing rapidly.'

Sorry, my post was referring to private/light vehicles. So, no great amount of advancemet in over 100 years.

The same can be said for the internal combustion engine. Next time some euro poser gets on his high horse beacuse his BMW/Audi is 'efficient', well, the French, Germans and Italians had dohc & forced induction 100 years ago, and even the most tech loaded modern cars are struggling to break 40% effieiency. We are all driving dinosaurs and it aint gonna change anytime soon.

[mik]

I wonder if in fact the pollution problem would really change if everyone went to electric vehicles, the greens are all for killing coal at any cost, but how much pollution would be generated by using 20 times the amount of batteries in motor vehicles,

I don't know much about how rechargeable ev batteries are made, but i know there's some nasty chemicals used creating the humble torch battery, also I don't know if there is more electrical wire used in electric cars , but i would imagine the insulation on wire cables is an oil based plastic ?
Are we just swapping one type of pollution for another ?
some have said how solar panels will offset power usage from charging, fair enough, how much pollution will come from the manufacture 20 billion solar panels and 20 billion home battery chargers , plus the infrastructure for public charging to be put in place ?
I'm not poo pooing the idea, just asking the question what are the honest realities of this puported change to transport mode.

[mik]

Originally Posted by smoo

Sorry, my post was referring to private/light vehicles. So, no great amount of advancemet in over 100 years.

The same can be said for the internal combustion engine. Next time some euro poser gets on his high horse beacuse his BMW/Audi is 'efficient', well, the French, Germans and Italians had dohc & forced induction 100 years ago, and even the most tech loaded modern cars are struggling to break 40% effieiency. We are all driving dinosaurs and it aint gonna change anytime soon.

Yeah but this dinosaur you speak of is very versatile, it will run on a vast array of fuels, including rubbish fuels, and pollution coming from internal combustion engines is less about the way it operates and more about the type of fuel used in it.

[Franco Cozzo]

I think its pretty cool how they branded the company after late 1800/early 1900s inventor Nikola Tesla:

Tesla Motors is named after electrical engineer and physicist Nikola Tesla. The Tesla Roadster uses an AC Motor descended directly from Tesla's original 1882 design.

http://www.businessinsider.in/Heres-...w/21719092.cms

Some of his achievements:

http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1...720318942.html

[simon varley]

the future may not be plug in electric anyway. The Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell EV has a 5 minute refueling time and a 300 mile range.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

Sorry, my post was referring to private/light vehicles. So, no great amount of advancemet in over 100 years.

The same can be said for the internal combustion engine. Next time some euro poser gets on his high horse beacuse his BMW/Audi is 'efficient', well, the French, Germans and Italians had dohc & forced induction 100 years ago, and even the most tech loaded modern cars are struggling to break 40% effieiency. We are all driving dinosaurs and it aint gonna change anytime soon.

I thought we were still pushing around 30% with petrol engines and diesel is slightly higher with 40% or there abouts, I dunno last time we looked into the stats was when I was in year 12 and the information we got was probably from the 1980s lol.

That amazes me if you think about it, you only use around 30% of the fuel going into your fuel tank to move the car, the rest goes out the exhaust as heat and byproducts, and you can get so far on that 30%.

Imagine if you could use 70% of it?

[mcnews]

Seen a Tesla in the flesh at an L.A. dealership, they are beautiful and absolutely amazing inside. Seriously if you ever get a chance to check out an up-spec model do it, forget about the motor and the batteries, the styling and interior is just beautiful in the flesh, and the finish out of this world.

[Franco Cozzo]

Zilo from this forum actually drove one in Melbourne.

What I find interesting about this company is they're charging the same $$$ for their cars across the world (except differences in shipping etc) rather than different markets, different prices like everyone else does.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Zilo from this forum actually drove one in Melbourne.

What I find interesting about this company is they're charging the same $$$ for their cars across the world (except differences in shipping etc) rather than different markets, different prices like everyone else does.

Correct, if only the Euro premium brands could do the same.

[warpsp33d]

https://transportevolved.com/2014/12...ale-australia/

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Cashie

Correct, if only the Euro premium brands could do the same.

Open us up to parallel importing on vehicles, then watch them squirm.

Mercedes was already having a right ol' sook about the mention of it.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by warpsp33d

https://transportevolved.com/2014/12...ale-australia/

Good article, basically repeats what I said above..

[mik]

Originally Posted by warpsp33d

https://transportevolved.com/2014/12...ale-australia/

i had a read of that , being able to run the charger at a lower amperage saves the wiring upgrade to a lot of modern houses , but for a lot of old places like mine on running 10 amp outlets are probably on the border already with a big air con and the basic house hold items, on the fast charge i reckon it might be stretching the friendship,
ive already been told by the sparky any more items and it will be a power box upgrade and line in upgrade, there's probably no shortage of 20/30 + year old places with similar wiring.
Then again those of us with 30 + year old houses probably wont be buying $ 100,000 cars .

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by mik

i had a read of that , being able to run the charger at a lower amperage saves the wiring upgrade to a lot of modern houses , but for a lot of old places like mine on running 10 amp outlets are probably on the border already with a big air con and the basic house hold items, on the fast charge i reckon it might be stretching the friendship,
ive already been told by the sparky any more items and it will be a power box upgrade and line in upgrade, there's probably no shortage of 20/30 + year old places with similar wiring.
Then again those of us with 30 + year old houses probably wont be buying $ 100,000 cars .

The average 20/30+ year old house is most likely due a meter box upgrade anyway I'd say.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Cashie

The average 20/30+ year old house is most likely due a meter box upgrade anyway I'd say.

Even if only as an excuse to install a smart meter to milk even more $$ from customers.

[Davehoos]

My house Is pre electricity early 1900. been replacing the cotton wound rubber coated copper wires in steel conduit over the last 10 years.

most houses locally are wired for 15 amp 2 phase and the service come out and check the cross arms and cups If you request or notify your intention to install a 3+ KW a/c unit.

received a sales burb today from provider that next year they will give you solar panel and you payback as you go. read into it what you will but my reading is all the media so far isn't reality based.

Brother finished up work on a big electricity job. for the last year they had big generators on site because it was cheaper than conection to the mains.
brother was hoping to scrap these before they left the work site.

[ebxr8240]

Most new homes have at least 16mm sq wire ( 25mm sq Alu ) Consumer mains to the board. with 100 amp main fuse..
If socket is wired back to the board with appropriate wire size, breaker . There's no problem.. The charger will possibly be hard wired anyway..

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Davehoos

My house Is pre electricity early 1900. been replacing the cotton wound rubber coated copper wires in steel conduit over the last 10 years.

most houses locally are wired for 15 amp 2 phase and the service come out and check the cross arms and cups If you request or notify your intention to install a 3+ KW a/c unit.

received a sales burb today from provider that next year they will give you solar panel and you payback as you go. read into it what you will but my reading is all the media so far isn't reality based.

Brother finished up work on a big electricity job. for the last year they had big generators on site because it was cheaper than conection to the mains.
brother was hoping to scrap these before they left the work site.

Chances are it's VIR and full of asbestos so be carefull. Sounds like your house should be re wired ? At least from point of attachment to board !! Even 6mm open wire can take 40 amps.. If service wire is bare or VIR ? Ring local authority as service wire must at least be covered, insulated..

[mik]

Originally Posted by Davehoos

My house Is pre electricity early 1900. been replacing the cotton wound rubber coated copper wires in steel conduit over the last 10 years.

most houses locally are wired for 15 amp 2 phase and the service come out and check the cross arms and cups If you request or notify your intention to install a 3+ KW a/c unit.

received a sales burb today from provider that next year they will give you solar panel and you payback as you go. read into it what you will but my reading is all the media so far isn't reality based.

Brother finished up work on a big electricity job. for the last year they had big generators on site because it was cheaper than conection to the mains.
brother was hoping to scrap these before they left the work site.

yep i used to live in an old oldie myself at one stage, it had been converted to electric , but still had the fittings for the gas lanterns on the wall (seriously !, and no im not that old).
but even the converted wiring was from the the era you speak of.

[zilo]

I am fairly confident that in this thread I am the only one to have driven this car and I can tell you it is a significant icon.


The assertion in this thread are misleading.

A 15amp socket will charge the car adequately in an evening.

We have 15a at 240v...not 110v as in the US...BIG difference.

to the OP...Come to my place mate and i'll show you what 20kw of solar panels can do in an hour or two.

And...it will be FREE....no power stations at all...no GST...nothing.

Anyone with a 5kw or bigger solar panel array can easily cover their daily running costs.

Buying a Tesla? Buy some more solar panels at the same time.

Or buy your power for 10c/kw at the night off peak rate if you prefer coal.

[SensationFG8]

Do you think it will stay 10c per kW hour if everyone is charging their car "off peak". It would seem to me the peaks would simply get flattened.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Do you think it will stay 10c per kW hour if everyone is charging their car "off peak". It would seem to me the peaks would simply get flattened.

your assertion assumes that overnight the current fleet of oil burners will be swapped out for electric, and that the resultant obvious necessary change in public opinion would prevent the tariff changes you predict.
I think with the obvious bias against the new technologies like the EV car it will be a long time coming, society will have to change significantly their attitudes to energy along the way that these early versions of the Ev future have plenty of time to iron out any bugs and prove their worth.

I like the idea of a solar power powered car. Bring it on

JP

[Maka]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

your assertion assumes that overnight the current fleet of oil burners will be swapped out for electric, and that the resultant obvious necessary change in public opinion would prevent the tariff changes you predict.
I think with the obvious bias against the new technologies like the EV car it will be a long time coming, society will have to change significantly their attitudes to energy along the way that these early versions of the Ev future have plenty of time to iron out any bugs and prove their worth.

I like the idea of a solar power powered car. Bring it on

JP

Yep, me too. I dont know when the manufacturers will bring out full solar powered cars but for now, how long before the tech is incorporated with current or near market ev cars as a auxiliary power supply? If not yet, who will be the first?

cheers, Maka

[zilo]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Do you think it will stay 10c per kW hour if everyone is charging their car "off peak". It would seem to me the peaks would simply get flattened.

Do you think petrol will stay below 2 bucks a litre?

50kw of coal power costs about 16 bucks at the current peak rate.


Pretty cheap for 5-600k of motoring...

Seen what happened to $AUD today?

Just wait for a shock.

[SensationFG8]

I never made any comments about the price of petrol, merely that if everyone is using electricity off peak it no longer remains off peak, that's all. Not quite sure what petrol has to do with the demand of electricity in an all electric car world...