Ford decision makers have me wondering at times

[DanielXR8]

I had an Escort as my first car and hated the indicator stalk on the left. First and last car I purchased that had that. It would be a deal breaker for me.

Having it on the left is a cost cutting exercise and nothing more. Yes you can adapt, but you shouldn't have to. My money, I'll choose what compromises I will accept in my car in the name of cost cutting. This isn't one of them.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yes indicator stalks on the left in a RHD car is retarded.

Holden pulled this little stunt back when they released the VR Commodore. Their thinking was that with the indicator stalk on the left, it would make people think they are driving a european car. Obviously consumers didn't see it their way and the "initiative" was quietly reverted to the conventional RHD layout. In fact, there would have to be so few VR's made like that they must have canned it early on because no one remembers it these days.

I don't know where you dreamed that up but the commodore has never had a lhs indicator stalk. I owned an aug93 vr many years ago which was one of the earliest, so i should know.

[GK]

Drove a mate's Mondeo last Sunday. Nearly went for the wipers instead of the indicators but caught myself straight away. Would much rather them on the right, but it'd not be a deal breaker for me.

I concede it'd be a pain when you've got a manual, but no issue at all if you have an auto.

As for safety issues, if it were so, wouldn't there be an ADR requirement?

GK

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If putting the indicator stalk on the correct side of the steering wheel is a trivial matter,
then why do a lot of the more popular manufacturers bother doing it for Australia?

In Automatic and DSG transmissions, having the indicator on the left is no disadvantage
but in manual gearboxes, you have to remember to indicate before downshifting....

And that's about it. Funny thing is that the fairer sex has a huge problem with using
their left hand more often...

Perhaps, there is something wrong with your system of vehicle control if this is an issue for you.

The correct system of vehicle control when making a turn is to check your rear view mirror, indicate your intention, apply the brake to slow down, change gear, continue to slow down and execute the turn at a suitable speed and in a gear appropriate for the turn. You should be indicating before you slow down and should not find yourself in a situation where you have to indicate and change gear.

Not sure about LHD cars, I would say it would depend on where the car is sold. A US LHD-only car would probably have a LH indicator, but this would be different for a car sold in LHD & RHD markets.

No different, australian delivered F250 and F350 had the indicator on the left, funny thing is they have been like that for as long as I can remember and I don't remember hearing a lot of people complaining about that.

I swap between left and right indicator vehicles constantly as many ambulance vehicles have it on the left, some on the right. Added to that the Typhoon is on the right and the Mini is on the left. I do not find it a problem and I never get messed up between changing gear and indicating on my left indicator, RHD, manual Mini.

From my point of view, why should ford spend all that money changing the indicator when the rest of the world is capable of dealing with it. Only 1 country with a population of 20 odd million have trouble with it. Yet many people in that same country manage with Audi, VW, euro GM, Mercedes, BMW etc with no problems.

Think of it this way, that cost has to be passed on to the consumer, perhaps we could all get used to the left and save a bit of money. I know I am used to it, my missus is too as she swaps from typhoon to mini constantly.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

From my point of view, why should ford spend all that money changing the indicator when the rest of the world is capable of dealing with it. Only 1 country with a population of 20 odd million have trouble with it. Yet many people in that same country manage with Audi, VW, euro GM, Mercedes, BMW etc with no problems.

as quoted, its not only ford who are like this. nearly all cars manufactured offshore have indicators and wipers opposite.

to me, what this thread shows, is the number of people who go out of their way to critisize ford.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

I had an Escort as my first car and hated the indicator stalk on the left. First and last car I purchased that had that. It would be a deal breaker for me.

Having it on the left is a cost cutting exercise and nothing more. Yes you can adapt, but you shouldn't have to. My money, I'll choose what compromises I will accept in my car in the name of cost cutting. This isn't one of them.

LOL...people think I am picky.

What about Porsche et al, do they have it on the "right" side? And who is to say what the "right" side is, maybe we have had it on the "wrong" side all these years. After all we are just a little island in terms of global car production.

Biggest non issue thread ever

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by FG Turbo Ute

he said that Ford had told him it would cost $15 million to develop a stalk with the indicator on the right.

Probably if it was a government department doing it

seriously how expensive is it going to be? get CAD drawings, flip over, send to C&C machine, send new parts to Ford Assembly Line.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Probably if it was a government department doing it

seriously how expensive is it going to be? get CAD drawings, flip over, send to C&C machine, send new parts to Ford Assembly Line.

Plus tooling, plus testing for compliance & durabilty. Really it's no big deal. If you drive a car for with a LH blinker for a day your OK.

My TS is on the Right, the wifes car is on the left, the trucks at work are on the lefty, a non issue.

T

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by stevz

I don't know where you dreamed that up but the commodore has never had a lhs indicator stalk. I owned an aug93 vr many years ago which was one of the earliest, so i should know.

I didn't dream it up, I read it in motoring reports when it was released. They probably changed it by the time cars were released for public sale.

I seem to recall it in one of the motoring mags at the time and the writer went on with a big speel about the psychology behind making it like that to make people think they were in a european car. As I said, it must have been removed very early on because there is no trace of it to be found now.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

If you base your car buying decision on what side the indicator stalk is on your a moron

If you cant adapt to driving with the indicator being on the opposite side to what your used to your also a moron and probably shouldn't be on the road at all.

I dont have an issue when interchanging between my two cars, and on the odd occasion I do go for the the wrong stalk well I clean the windscreen instead, big deal.

I find that comment highly offensive, there are some of us actually have problems adapting to change I personally have a huge problem changing things that are learned but more or less automatic tasks (I've been told this could be related to my dyslexia). This in no way impacts on my ability to drive a car designed to suit the Australian norm but put me in a car with the blinkers on the wrong side and I put the wipers on 9 times out of 10 so I guess I am a moron by your narrow minded definition as I would use this in deciding on a car.
Maybe people like you with bigoted discriminatory views shouldn't be posting on forums if you are incapable of thinking before you post (unless of course you have some kind of condition that causes this behaviour)

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

If anything its about time Australia gets with the rest of the world and puts the indicator stalk on the left side.

NO No No

The 'rest of the world' drive on the other side of the road, and thus have the indicator stalk closest to the driver's side window.

Why should we suffer in Australia by not having the indicator stalk on the same side as the driver-side window, when the 'rest of the world' eternally enjoys this luxury?

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I find that comment highly offensive, there are some of us actually have problems adapting to change I personally have a huge problem changing things that are learned but more or less automatic tasks (I've been told this could be related to my dyslexia). This in no way impacts on my ability to drive a car designed to suit the Australian norm but put me in a car with the blinkers on the wrong side and I put the wipers on 9 times out of 10 so I guess I am a moron by your narrow minded definition as I would use this in deciding on a car.
Maybe people like you with bigoted discriminatory views shouldn't be posting on forums if you are incapable of thinking before you post (unless of course you have some kind of condition that causes this behaviour)

Dont get your knickers in a knot, lifes too short

Maybe manufacturers should offer a conversion course for those that cant cope with their indicator stalk on the wrong side.

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Dont get your knickers in a knot, lifes too short

Maybe manufacturers should offer a conversion course for those that cant cope with their indicator stalk on the wrong side.

Um, maybe they could just convert the indicator stalks to the RHS.

The fact they don't is unthoughtful and lazy.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Perhaps, there is something wrong with your system of vehicle control if this is an issue for you.

The correct system of vehicle control when making a turn is ...Blah blah blah

Two questions for you Gecko:

1) Where did I say anything about making a turn?
2) and where did i say I have any issue with an indicator on the left?

Read and comprehend before shooting from the hip.....

Originally Posted by geckoGT

From my point of view, why should ford spend all that money changing the indicator when the rest of the world is capable of dealing with it. Only 1 country with a population of 20 odd million have trouble with it. Yet many people in that same country manage with Audi, VW, euro GM, Mercedes, BMW etc with no problems.

Out of 90,000 odd vehicles a month, how many are Audi/VW/Eurotrash/Mercs/BMW.
I think you're really clutching at straws trying to make up numbers.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I didn't dream it up, I read it in motoring reports when it was released. They probably changed it by the time cars were released for public sale.

I seem to recall it in one of the motoring mags at the time and the writer went on with a big speel about the psychology behind making it like that to make people think they were in a european car. As I said, it must have been removed very early on because there is no trace of it to be found now.

Fair enough and no offence intended. I have some old magazines from that era lying around somewhere, I might dust them off and see what I can find.

Originally Posted by FG Turbo Ute

he said that Ford had told him it would cost $15 million to develop a stalk with the indicator on the right.

$15m to redesign a couple of pieces of plastic? How on earth can that be justified? No wonder the automotive industry is buggered.

[casabonka]

The work car is a Viva.. worst car ever built with "normal" indicators, and then jump in the focus at night and on weekends and never have an issue...
Cant understand how that would put someone off buying?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by stevz

Fair enough and no offence intended. I have some old magazines from that era lying around somewhere, I might dust them off and see what I can find.

Mate to be honest, I can't really remember if it was in a magazine or a newspaper article. All I remember (it was 18 years ago!!) is the subject matter and a couple of phrases from it that stuck in my mind. I have a sneaking suspicion that it may have been one of those "scoop" insider type articles where some journo dude got a drive of a VR when perhaps he shouldn't have...!

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Forda

Um, maybe they could just convert the indicator stalks to the RHS.

The fact they don't is unthoughtful and lazy.

Dont be silly that was going to cost $15 million, it would far cheaper to run a conversion course for those indicatorly challenged (read moron's) amongst us

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Two questions for you Gecko:

1) Where did I say anything about making a turn?
2) and where did i say I have any issue with an indicator on the left?

Read and comprehend before shooting from the hip.....


Out of 90,000 odd vehicles a month, how many are Audi/VW/Eurotrash/Mercs/BMW.
I think you're really clutching at straws trying to make up numbers.

1. When else would you use an indicator other than on the instances that you make some form of turn? I did not include changing lanes as this does not involve slowing down or gear changes so I saw no need to mention it.
2. The spirit of your post seemed to suggest you do.

I did read and comprehend, I was not "shooting from the hip", I was voicing my opinion based on my logic and experience as were you, it just happens that I disagree with you on this instance. Many other times I agree with you but unfortunately not on this one.

Last point of yours. I am not going to research the exact figures because I have better things to do (have some stuff to do to buy my new "euro trash"). I am quite comfortable saying that considering all euro built fords, euro built GM and all the other "euro trash"that you mention, this number of vehicles is not an insignificant segment of the new car figures. Added to that, considering the number of imported cars being sold each month are increasing and the number of australian built cars are decreasing, this is an ever decreasing margin. I would say it is pretty safe to say that out of all the cars sold each month, at least 10% (probably actually way more than that) have the indicator on the left. That means 9000 people a month do not have a problem with it, I am sure the other 81,000 had reasons other than the indicator location that influenced their decision.

NO No No

The 'rest of the world' drive on the other side of the road, and thus have the indicator stalk closest to the driver's side window.

Why should we suffer in Australia by not having the indicator stalk on the same side as the driver-side window, when the 'rest of the world' eternally enjoys this luxury?

Some of the countries that have RHD vehicles but LHS indicators as a result of imports from the US and Europe.

List of left-driving countries

The following is a list of countries of the world whose inhabitants drive on the left-hand side of the road. Most of the drivers of these countries use right-hand-drive vehicles.

1. Anguilla
2. Antigua and Barbuda
3. Australia
4. Bahamas
5. Bangladesh
6. Barbados
7. Bermuda
8. Bhutan
9. Botswana
10. Brunei
11. Cayman Islands
12. Christmas Island (Australia)
13. Cook Islands
14. Cyprus
15. Dominica
16. East Timor
17. Falkland Islands
18. Fiji
19. Grenada
20. Guernsey (Channel Islands)
21. Guyana
22. Hong Kong
23. India
24. Indonesia
25. Ireland
26. Isle of Man
27. Jamaica
28. Japan
29. Jersey (Channel Islands)
30. Kenya
31. Kiribati
32. Cocos (Keeling) Islands (Australia)
33. Lesotho
34. Macau
35. Malawi
36. Malaysia
37. Maldives
38. Malta
39. Mauritius
40. Montserrat
41. Mozambique
42. Namibia
43. Nauru
44. Nepal
45. New Zealand
46. Niue
47. Norfolk Island (Australia)
48. Pakistan
49. Papua New Guinea
50. Pitcairn Islands (Britain)
51. Saint Helena
52. Saint Kitts and Nevis
53. Saint Lucia
54. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
55. Samoa
56. Seychelles
57. Singapore
58. Solomon Islands
59. South Africa
60. Sri Lanka
61. Suriname
62. Swaziland
63. Tanzania
64. Thailand
65. Tokelau (New Zealand)
66. Tonga
67. Trinidad and Tobago
68. Turks and Caicos Islands
69. Tuvalu
70. Uganda
71. United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland)
72. Virgin Islands (British)
73. Virgin Islands (US)
74. Zambia
75. Zimbabwe

This is only about 25% of the worlds countries and most are former british colonies and in many cases they are very small in population. We are not alone in this situation but it seems others deal with it well, just as most australians do, well I thought they did.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by prydey

as quoted, its not only ford who are like this. nearly all cars manufactured offshore have indicators and wipers opposite.

to me, what this thread shows, is the number of people who go out of their way to critisize ford.

Agreed, I think ford have much bigger issues regarding their vehicles sales figures than which side the indicator is on.

Anyway, I have been driving the Mini and Mercedes Sprinters for a week (LHS indicator) but I have to go out in the Typhoon now, hope I do not cause a crash using my wipers as indicators.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Dont get your knickers in a knot, lifes too short

Maybe manufacturers should offer a conversion course for those that cant cope with their indicator stalk on the wrong side.

well excuse me but calling me a moron is far from appropriate. maybe they need a course to teach people like to to adjust your attitude

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

1. When else would you use an indicator other than on the instances that you make some form of turn? I did not include changing lanes as this does not involve slowing down or gear changes so I saw no need to mention it.
2. The spirit of your post seemed to suggest you do.

You've got me all wrong, I make three points:

1) If putting the indicator stalk on the correct side of the steering wheel is a trivial matter,
then why do a lot of the more popular manufacturers bother doing it for Australia?

2) In Automatic and DSG transmissions, having the indicator on the left is no disadvantage
but in manual gearboxes, you have to remember to indicate before downshifting....(when overtaking,...sound better?)


And that's about it. Funny thing is that the fairer sex has a huge problem with using left hand more often...
(maybe we should all learn to use our left hand a bit more..)

I did read and comprehend, I was not "shooting from the hip", I was voicing my opinion based on my logic and experience as were you, it just happens that I disagree with you on this instance. Many other times I agree with you but unfortunately not on this one.

I have owned an RS2000 and a 1996 mondeo, had no problems with indicator on the left,
Previously had a Land Rover Freelander diesel as a work vehicle, no problem there....
we have two Focuseses at work, have no problem with either of them.
We have two VW Caddys at work, no problem with them....

See a pattern?

Last point of yours. I am not going to research the exact figures because I have better things to do .

Hey, an ambulance is not 'sposed to be used like a Sandman.......

BTW, I only meant European GM as Eurotrash, I had the decency to call all others by their proper names.

Next time I promise to hesplain myself better......

Question for anyone:
How many of last month's top ten sellers had indicator on the left?

1.Holden Commodore – 4170
2.Toyota HiLux – 4028
3.Mazda3 – 3979
4.Toyota Corolla – 3067
5.Holden Cruze – 2804
6.Nissan Navara – 2575
7.Hyundai i30 – 2376
8.Mitsubishi Triton – 1978
9.Mitsubishi Lancer – 1749
10.Ford Falcon – 1719

[2011G6E]

The problem is that for decades we have had indicators on the correct side...right hand...and even when you've had a car for some time with the indicators on the left, you automatically go for the right hand side if something pops up. I've seen several people, including family members, who own European cars with it on the left who even now still will hit the wipers by accident, not to mention the annoyance if someone else hops in to drive. It's a leaned response to just flick the right hand to the indicator...perhaps in Europe it's a learned and ingrained response to flick the left hand to them...but why should we change the way our cars have been designed for many many decades?

If they're spending all that money designing and building right hand drive versions just for our market, I find it extremely hard to believe that they would find it such a problem to swap the stalks over or that it would cost "$15 million" to do so...and to be blunt, when they're prepared to spend many hundreds of millions on developing increasing irrelevant (to the vast majority of the car-buying public) new V8 engines, what's a few million on basic controls to give a bit of consistancy across the model range?

[1TUFFUTE]

if someone is so challenged that they cant or wont drive a car with lh blinker stalk then they probably shouldnt be driving on the road. You need alot more hand eye coords and motor skills to drive properly then that being a problem. Its actually a better design once you get used to it. We have it in our Golf and i prefer it to my utes right hand side

[2011G6E]

It isn't "being challenged"...it's a simple matter of it being a very important control that you shouldn't have to "adapt to" or hop in a car and check twice to see which side the stalk is on and keep it cnstantly in mind if you have more than one car with, potentially, different controls.

This is a right hand drive country...we are forced by law to drive new cars with right hand drive, manufacturers (both here & importers who want to sell thier cars here) must provide vehicles here with right hand drive. I'm honestly surprised they don't stipulate that the indicator stalk on imports be consistant with vehicles manufactured here, ie: the right hand side.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

if someone is so challenged that they cant or wont drive a car with lh blinker stalk then they probably shouldnt be driving on the road. You need alot more hand eye coords and motor skills to drive properly then that being a problem. Its actually a better design once you get used to it. We have it in our Golf and i prefer it to my utes right hand side

Read my previous post I can drive as well as anyone else with the main controls in a standard configuration but have great difficulty in adapting to having a major configuration change. Comments like this are akin to Nazi Germany where your rights were eroded or removed if you failed to live up to standards of physical perfection.
I have a mild disability (I often get my partner to proof read my work because I fail to see subtle errors but I still function well in the IT industry) which has no bearing on my ability to drive a normal car but calls of you shouldn’t be driving because I have difficulty with a change from normal Australian formats are offensive and illegal under the disability discrimination act. What next sterilisation so I can’t breed because I’m not perfect? Don’t laugh it has happened before when people accepted these types of views and it could happen again
Be afraid, be very afraid

[BA GT-HO]

I have 2 cars. One the stalk is on the right, the other is on the left.

What happens when it rains? It gets wet. You adapt your driving style. What is the difference here?

If you cant adapt then you shouldn't be driving.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by jpd80

You've got me all wrong, I make three points:

1) If putting the indicator stalk on the correct side of the steering wheel is a trivial matter,
then why do a lot of the more popular manufacturers bother doing it for Australia?

Cool, I read your post differently,easy to do.

2) In Automatic and DSG transmissions, having the indicator on the left is no disadvantage
but in manual gearboxes, you have to remember to indicate before downshifting....(when overtaking,...sound better?)

You should be indicating before pulling out to overtake, a split second to hit the indicator as you move to the gear lever is no problem, your hand moves past the indicator to the gear lever if you have it in the correct hand position on the wheel. In fact I would suggest it is safer, right hand only holds the wheel, the left hand is the only one that alters its grip at any stage. In the RHS indicator on this occasion both hands alter their grip at some stage. Personally I think this is a moot point altogether, I see no functional advantage on either side.

And that's about it. Funny thing is that the fairer sex has a huge problem with using left hand more often...
(maybe we should all learn to use our left hand a bit more..)

Not sure where that is going, the fairer sex actually have greater dexterity on average.

I have owned an RS2000 and a 1996 mondeo, had no problems with indicator on the left,
Previously had a Land Rover Freelander diesel as a work vehicle, no problem there....
we have two Focuseses at work, have no problem with either of them.
We have two VW Caddys at work, no problem with them....

See a pattern?

I actually did not mean that you personally had a functional problem with them, just that your theory demonstrates a problem in the process of the system of vehicle control.

Hey, an ambulance is not 'sposed to be used like a Sandman.......

AAAHHHH, funny guy ha

BTW, I only meant European GM as Eurotrash, I had the decency to call all others by their proper names.

I have a eurotrash car, about to be 2, I can live with that.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Not sure where that is going, the fairer sex actually have greater dexterity on average.

Thank you gecko


That is all.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

Read my previous post I can drive as well as anyone else with the main controls in a standard configuration but have great difficulty in adapting to having a major configuration change. Comments like this are akin to Nazi Germany where your rights were eroded or removed if you failed to live up to standards of physical perfection.
I have a mild disability (I often get my partner to proof read my work because I fail to see subtle errors but I still function well in the IT industry) which has no bearing on my ability to drive a normal car but calls of you shouldn’t be driving because I have difficulty with a change from normal Australian formats are offensive and illegal under the disability discrimination act. What next sterilisation so I can’t breed because I’m not perfect? Don’t laugh it has happened before when people accepted these types of views and it could happen again
Be afraid, be very afraid

I can see your point and see that someone has touched a sore point with you, maybe through a poor choice on words, maybe more sinister than that.

You are completely right that some have more difficulty adapting to change than others for very good reasons through no fault of their own, that is fair. Having said that with time spent learning to adapt to the change, people with your condition can overcome that difficulty, as I have no doubt that you have had to overcome similar changes.

Please do not take offense to what I have said, like I said I see your point and respect that it may be more difficult, I just don't believe it is impossible.

As for the others, perhaps they can play a bit nicer and we can cool things down a bit.