Unhappy XR6 owner - Page 2

blueoval · 01-03-2005, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dez

I remember a similar segment on a show like that, but it was a GTS, and had been in over 100 times to get shit fixed....I think it had 2 new engines!

Yeah, that could be the one Dez. I forget, but I just laughed at his comment about him being a Holden lover and all. :togo:

Dez · 01-03-2005, 10:17 PM

if my xr6t stuffed up, i'd be ****ed.....if my $100k GTS went through 2 engines and was still a lemon, i would be SUPER ****ED!!!!!!!!!!

RED_EL_XR8 · 01-03-2005, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cArSiK

After 15 times back to the dealership for an engine problem wouldnt you have the shits with someone? With out knowing the storey behind this we really cant comment on Whether or not this is justified. This guy may well have been seriously dicked around....

Well it took about 18 times and probaly 40 or 50 reasoned and factual e-mails, lots of google research, a letter to the US VP, but we got a new vehicle.
And the service manager that created much of the problem was demoted sideways. Added bonus but not the aim.
I'm not saying its a lot of fun, but I'll bet this guy doesn't have a zot of real evidence, or a log of the lost time, or the phone calls, or the relevant TSBs etc, sticker isn't going to get you anywhere but $80 poorer.

**Stav** · 01-03-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Because we have the sickness!!!

:

Thats it!!! :sm_headba

:sm_headba :sm_headba :sm_headba

cArSiK · 02-03-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Well it took about 18 times and probaly 40 or 50 reasoned and factual e-mails, lots of google research, a letter to the US VP, but we got a new vehicle.
And the service manager that created much of the problem was demoted sideways. Added bonus but not the aim.
I'm not saying its a lot of fun, but I'll bet this guy doesn't have a zot of real evidence, or a log of the lost time, or the phone calls, or the relevant TSBs etc, sticker isn't going to get you anywhere but $80 poorer.

wow , i sold new fords untill recently and to get a car repalced is a massive thing , so it was obviously justifyed in your case. The number of people that would come back and demand a replacement vehicle for small things was amazing , however its not a decision on the dealership level , but ford australia as they are the ones responsible for the warranty.

XA-Coupe · 02-03-2005, 09:07 AM

Does make me wonder about Lemon Laws. If someone does get a lemon ... what recourse do they have ?? None ... somewhere there needs to be a middle ground between the whinging tools and the people with genuine problems.

His stupid sticker stunt just makes him look silly. I am not aware of anyone getting anything except funny looks with those sorts of things. It would no doubt put Ford / the dealer quite offside.

Ford Fanatic · 02-03-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cArSiK

wow , i sold new fords untill recently and to get a car repalced is a massive thing , so it was obviously justifyed in your case. The number of people that would come back and demand a replacement vehicle for small things was amazing , however its not a decision on the dealership level , but ford australia as they are the ones responsible for the warranty.

Been there, had a replacement falcon from Ford when mine was 8 months old with about 8000k on the clock or there abouts. I could have been charged board at the dealership. The car replacement was a dealership initiative and I take my hat off to them. This happened about 5 years ago

RED_EL_XR8 · 02-03-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cArSiK

wow , i sold new fords untill recently and to get a car repalced is a massive thing , so it was obviously justifyed in your case. The number of people that would come back and demand a replacement vehicle for small things was amazing , however its not a decision on the dealership level , but ford australia as they are the ones responsible for the warranty.

This wasn't a Ford. But the dealer does have a Ford arm. The vehicle in question was a US Luxury import. It wasn't mine, my part was the letter writing and online research. You are dead right about people making stupid and this makes it entirely reasonable that there is a lot of resistance at dealer and manufacturer level.
The vehice is question was an absolute dog, endless problems, and many of those problems recurrant. Its replacement has had problem but these have been at a reasonable level for a new vehicle. The sales staff were always helpful resolving issues to the level of their authority, and there was only one or two individual that could be considered negligent. Still didn't make it a fun buying experience for a near top of the range vehicle.

I am very resistant to so called "Lemon Laws", they will just be another thrown together grab bag that will do little but increase costs for everyone. The one thing I would like to see is more pressure put on local manufacturers to disclose their TSB to the public and other professionals. At least to the level from the US.

Most people (even Dealers) are entirely reasonable, but they are running a business. But you cannot expect them to give money away without a credible arguement. Likewise their are always those that will pull a swifty, this occurs on both sides of the fence. Seeing threads elsewhere suggesting you flash your ECU back to factory as your car heads back to the dealer on a flat-top after the last mega-mod attempt doesn't help either. Dealers etc, do this for a living, and I'm sure they have seen scams most of us haven even dreamed of.

With a smug sense of satisfaction and a bush knowledge of contract law I suggest the following actions to resolve warrantee issues.

- Play the devils advocate, look at the issue from the point of view of the dealer or manufacturer. If you understand where they are coming from you have a much better hold of the issues at hand.

- Dont RANT & RAVE, raised voices and spilt coffee, may relieve your frustration for a milli-second or two, but think what your own thoughts are when you see someone carry on like this on your own workplace. You mark them into your loonie file, have a quick giggle, then get on with anything else you can.

- Document Everything times dates, how long the vehicle was there, the written list of problems you presented to the service department. Its all important, and it builds your case to have major actions such as engine rebuilds, full paint resprays, or complete vehicle replacements performed.

- Document your Costs/Losses and Risks All the lost hours caused by your vehicles breakdown. Extra childminding costs, vehicle hire, taxi fares etc. If your in business the cost are double because no one is paying you to fix your own vehicle. No you wont get these costs reimbursed, but like the previous paragraph it helps build your case. Also document the situation of any breakdown, having your misses stranded in the centre lane of the M4 during peak hour, because a new vehicle failed, is not an image or a risk any manufacturer wants to be associated with.

- Correspond RegularlyIf problems are ongoing dont let it rest. And include everyone you have spoken to in these letters and e-mails. Include everyone you have spoken in all mails, and forward all previous correspondance to any new party that becomes involved. Keep correspondance polite and factual (refer previous loonie comments). Noone will expect you to be an expert, and if you are presented with documents that cannot be interpreted or are full of jargon, ask for a palin english interpretation.

Google is your Friend as are magazines newspapers etc, there is a wealth of information available about any mass produced vehicle. These are also a good way of finding out who is who within an organisation. When a service manager states that this problem has not been encountered previously, there is nothing like the satisfaction of Quoting 3 related US TSBs and one another AU TSB. Do your research.

Dont be Fobbed Off Learn who is who, if you get no action go over the persons head, no-one likes this so be sure you have given them fair opportunity first. Note however that without evidence busy managers will refer your problem back down the chain.

If all else fails aim for the top An email directly addresses to the US president of a manufacturer may not have been seen by his eyes, but it sure as hell got a written response from his PA and from the Australian Product Manager.
Most large and medium sized corporations use microsoft exchange mail servers and the firstname dot lastname @organisiation.com conventions. You can often get emails into places a letter would never reach. Use this wisely.

Stand your Ground but be reasonable Yo cannot expect anyone to just give away a replacement vehicle or extensive repairs. But armed with a sound arguement and supporting evidence you will stand the best chance.

As stated previously all of this is a lot of hassle but consider the dollar involved. You would go to a fair effort to earn $10K or so, wouldn't you? So why give it away on a hasty trade in of a lemon?
It can be done and you DO NOT require a team of high priced legals to present your case. And I would suggest you will get further on you own or with the help of a friend than a legal will for the $$ involved. You do have a lot of existing consumer legislation on your side.

Well there is two minute of advice from another Neville Consumer, take it or leave it, I know it works better than any vitriolic window sticker ever will. Dont want to try any of these actions, thats your perogative, just dont expect much sympathy. God/Allah/Buhda/Elvis etc help those that help themselves. :jab:

SSbaby · 02-03-2005, 11:47 AM

I've taken my car back to the dealer probably 10 times, mostly for minor repairs and recalls, but also for an engine rebuild (cold start rattle) over the warranty period. I still love my car and would never part with it. I have changed suspension, brakes, ... still love my Holdens.

But I know that many Holden owners have experienced similar grief as the XR6 owner. Lemons are prevalent across all manufacturers. I could tell you a story about a friend of mine who recently bought herself a Mitsubishi Lancer. She takes the car back to her dealership nearly every week for engine related issues... the dealership is treating her with contempt... "What did you expect, you didn't buy a Merc!" was what the service rep said to her. And Tom Philips goes on TV saying if you could buy a better... Ha!

Don't take it to heart, Ford lovers!

MaD_KiWi · 02-03-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaTTuS

even if he had brought an ss it would have the same sticker on it because he would be going back for engine rebuilds

ohhhhhhh a well thought of mature car enthusiast comment

NOT!!!!

MaD_KiWi · 02-03-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaTTuS

blueravan gets banished to ford hell

which is piles and piles of commodore magazines and videos that you are forced to watch

Ohhhhhhhhh and another one, i love one eyeds, they make me laugh and makes me try and guess there age or the car they drive.

:MrT_anim:

RED_EL_XR8 · 02-03-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaD_KiWi

ohhhhhhh a well thought of mature car enthusiast comment

NOT!!!!

Dont hold your breath waiting for mature comment, you'll go blue waiting! :sm_headba

MaD_KiWi · 02-03-2005, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Dont hold your breath waiting for mature comment, you'll go blue waiting! :sm_headba

well since im not a one eyer, i will probably go red and blue waiting.

_2: seriously though, no need to be all one eyed, im sure mingey jeffery etc didnt want this site turning into that now do we.

Simon

RED_EL_XR8 · 02-03-2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaD_KiWi

well since im not a one eyer, i will probably go red and blue waiting.

_2: seriously though, no need to be all one eyed, im sure mingey jeffery etc didnt want this site turning into that now do we.

Simon

Red & Blue - Good call! SOH is a wonderful thing. Cheers

:

M14A-Mclaren · 02-03-2005, 07:22 PM

Wow, hes really not handling it that well.

4LTURBO · 03-03-2005, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Almost identical on an SS ute sticker in Gawler.

"THIS NEW CAR IS A LEMON, brand new and uses more oil than my 1976 Kingswood"

yeah, i've seen that, impulse blue it is, saw it doing a burnout out of the bp on the run near munno para... seen my car getting around? blueprint xr6t with 4LTURBO plates?

Psycho Chicken · 03-03-2005, 07:30 PM

I was at the MMS today, there was a guy walking outside up and down the length of Jeff's Shed with a sign saying "LEMONS; NEW MAZDA MX5!".

I guess he's pretty ****ed too!

03-03-2005, 08:43 PM

I am soo close to doing that with my GT-P its not funny, i think ford brought out a brilliant model but rushed through the build time of the car...

GlennBA · 03-03-2005, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaniard

Personally, I just think he/she is just a stupid idiot for doing that. If they're not happy, then why have the car still? Sell the bloody thing and get a different car I say!

I totally disagree. This person has paid all this money for the car, he shouldn't have to buy a new one. Is it that much to ask that a $50,000 car should work properly? The car has probably depreciated $20k since he bought it, why should he have to incur the cost of ford building him a shit car.

GlennBA · 03-03-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

Mainly engine problems don't sound like silly problems to me. I thought it was funny myself

I know this is gonna sound strange, so brace yourself guys.

It - is - possible - that - a - ford - is - a - lemon.

There. I said it. :P

Its very possible. My dads got a BA XR6T and its had 24 warranty issues in 30,000km. I saw this guy tell his story on another forum and he's had like 30+ issues with the car. Its not on really.

:

b2tf · 03-03-2005, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennXRT

I totally disagree. This person has paid all this money for the car, he shouldn't have to buy a new one. Is it that much to ask that a $50,000 car should work properly?

No, its not. But, say you were the dealer who sold this car. Would you be interested in helping someone out who has pretty much just gone and dragged your name, reputation and product through the mud?

GlennBA · 03-03-2005, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

No, its not. But, say you were the dealer who sold this car. Would you be interested in helping someone out who has pretty much just gone and dragged your name, reputation and product through the mud?

I'll bet he's put the sticker on after a few unsucessful trips at the dealer though. They are obligated to help him get that car fixed. If the car worked fine and the dealer fixed it properly the sticker wouldn't be on there.

b2tf · 03-03-2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennXRT

I'll bet he's put the sticker on after a few unsucessful trips at the dealer though. They are obligated to help him get that car fixed. If the car worked fine and the dealer fixed it properly the sticker wouldn't be on there.

Not entirely 'obligated'. If the stuffups are a result of mistreatment/modification/aleration/damage to the car (and 9 times out of 10 it is easy to tell), they're not obligated to do anything at all.

I do agree with you, obviously he's a bit frustrated, but doing what he has is certainly not going to help his cause, if anything it will hinder it.

460cixy · 03-03-2005, 11:56 PM

its a mass produced car. nothing is perfect i recon as most do its a dealer problem. i have also seen stickers much the same on holdens. tho how often do you see this on a jap car or euro car? maybe ford and holden should look at what thay do and make a better product and dealer/service network. even if this means more expencive cars. it would work out better for everyone buyer dealer and company.

04-03-2005, 01:33 AM

its all well and good to say these things when ur car hasn't had a fault...

We have a GT-P (Phantom)
The rear bar is peeling paint, and underneath is Blueprint, now how is that for cost cutting!

and it took 7 weeks of fighting to actually get some sort of approval from ford to fix it! not like i painted it myself, altho i bet i'd do a better job...

so yeah 70g car and peeling paint cos ford sticks a second hand bumperbar on it... YEP i'd do exactly what he has done, any more sh*t from ford and i'm damn sure our rear window will become a billboard :jab:

Dez · 04-03-2005, 01:36 AM

thats just wrong that they'd do that madmanz...what a load of shit.

if i could work it out with ford i wouldnt do the whole sticker thing....but thats just me, and i didnt pay $70k for my car...so i cant say what id do....i would be ****ed though

460cixy · 04-03-2005, 02:04 AM

i can totaly understand ppl being ****ed off as anyone would . but i think qaulity control is lacking in both camps and poor dealer service . will be both ford and holdens un doing. they realy need to look at the japs on quality control and dealer service

Rodp · 04-03-2005, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennXRT

Its very possible. My dads got a BA XR6T and its had 24 warranty issues in 30,000km. I saw this guy tell his story on another forum and he's had like 30+ issues with the car. Its not on really.

:

How many of those are individual issues and how many are repeat issues? Might be a case of taking it to another dealer?

G6ET Seduce · 17-05-2009, 10:28 PM

Ok im now very very scared, was soosed to get a new G6ET on friday and it had and oil leak and failed roadworthy. Its also getting a respray for what was soposed to be a buffable scratch!

Geez Louise · 17-05-2009, 10:32 PM

Wow...How old is this thread?