Petrol V Gas

[290GTP]

BF 2 Egas pumps out 157kw. Mine does 0-100kph in 8.7 seconds consistently on my phone app for what thats worth. Savings are reasonable if your doing lots of kays.

[mik]

i had older cars on gas and it was ok, but if your doing buggerall k`s imo just wear a few bucks extra for the petrol, to me older gas setups makes less monetary value if your not doing at least 3 or 4 hundred k`s a week, on the later models with better gas systems it probably not the case, but my experience the older systems they required tuning a bit more often.

my mate had egas utes and an eco lpi ute, he loved the egas, but the eco lpi he raves about his eco lpi ute power wise,
he does say it can chew through the gas if you drive it like a ratbag, he daily drives through some hills and twisties on his hour drive to work/home and he doesn't spare the horses.

[BENT_8]

Not aimed at anyone in particular, but FFS.

The man wants a FALCON, he wants FACTORY GAS.

He already owns an XR6, all he wants is confirmation that a cheap run around EGAS FALCON from the B SERIES will suit his needs.

I'd say it would.

Is it that hard to comprehend...

[Mont5.0]

^ thankyou.
and no not interested in 4 bangers or converting my current 2 petrol falcons...

[kypez]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Not aimed at anyone in particular, but FFS.

The man wants a FALCON, he wants FACTORY GAS.

He already owns an XR6, all he wants is confirmation that a cheap run around EGAS FALCON from the B SERIES will suit his needs.

I'd say it would.

Is it that hard to comprehend...

To be fair, he only mentioned Gas, EGas came up through the discussion and hence people mentioned the EcoLPi as that is factory gas.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I will have to disagree, even though my setup was duel fuel it ran on petrol for stuff all, only until it was up to op temp.

I only ever kept enough petrol in to keep the low fuel warning off.

Whats the cost of an aftermarket SVI/LPI installation? Cost my neighbour $4K and wiring wasn't crimped properly which I had to fix as they had done it with pliers.

$4K is a lot of $$$ which could go towards the EcoLPI

[Ducati888]

Like I said, if you buy a car that already has LPG on it, there is no way you can lose. There are no disadvantages. You won't have the conversion costs to recover over time through cheaper fuel - it's already done. Just buy, and enjoy the fuel savings immediately.

As far as servicing goes - there shouldn't be any additional cost over petrol engines. In fact it should be less because the oil doesn't even get dirty using gas, so you wouldn't need to do a filter change every time if you didn't want to. There is nothing to 'tune' on the gas system that wouldn't be tuned on the petrol system. The I6 is plenty powerful enough even if there is a bit of a loss.

And there's nothing wrong with dual fuel. I have old vapour ring system on my Prado, and up until recently on my Verada AWD (sold it last month). After 8 years and thousands of KM in both cars - no problems at all. None with starting, none with backfiring, none with performance around the suburbs. Clean oil and healthy engines.

LPG is a big win, under any circumstances.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Whats the cost of an aftermarket SVI/LPI installation? Cost my neighbour $4K and wiring wasn't crimped properly which I had to fix as they had done it with pliers.

$4K is a lot of $$$ which could go towards the EcoLPI

You could buy a whole eGas car for $4k though. EcoLPI's are going to be 2011 year model at the oldest I'd imagine. Even with crappy resale that could still be $10k+

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Like I said, if you buy a car that already has LPG on it, there is no way you can lose. There are no disadvantages. You won't have the conversion costs to recover over time through cheaper fuel - it's already done. Just buy, and enjoy the fuel savings immediately.

As far as servicing goes - there shouldn't be any additional cost over petrol engines. In fact it should be less because the oil doesn't even get dirty using gas, so you wouldn't need to do a filter change every time if you didn't want to. There is nothing to 'tune' on the gas system that wouldn't be tuned on the petrol system. The I6 is plenty powerful enough even if there is a bit of a loss.

And there's nothing wrong with dual fuel. I have old vapour ring system on my Prado, and up until recently on my Verada AWD (sold it last month). After 8 years and thousands of KM in both cars - no problems at all. None with starting, none with backfiring, none with performance around the suburbs. Clean oil and healthy engines.

LPG is a big win, under any circumstances.

There are additional costs to take into account:

LPG fuel filter.
LPG lines, convertor & tank require periodical inspection & leak testing.
LPG tank requires testing & approval every 10 years.
Spark plugs require replacement earlier than petrol.
Cleanliness of the engine oil is deceiving; even though there is less carbon produced and the oil looks clean, LPG burn creates a lot of acid and moisture - the oil looks clean but can be extremely acidic, which causes increase corrosion of internal parts, including seals & bearings.

Buying a used LPG vehicle is better value; as long as it has been looked after and still has a few years left on the tank.

[GASWAGON]

Definately a petrol B series already fitted with a sequential vapour system is the cheapest way. The Egas Falcons are o.k but they still have problems with convertors sometimes.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Definately a petrol B series already fitted with a sequential vapour system is the cheapest way. The Egas Falcons are o.k but they still have problems with convertors sometimes.

Any car can have problems whether petrol or gas, depends on how it is maintained.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by johnydep

There are additional costs to take into account:

LPG fuel filter.
LPG lines, convertor & tank require periodical inspection & leak testing.
LPG tank requires testing & approval every 10 years.
Spark plugs require replacement earlier than petrol.
Cleanliness of the engine oil is deceiving; even though there is less carbon produced and the oil looks clean, LPG burn creates a lot of acid and moisture - the oil looks clean but can be extremely acidic, which causes increase corrosion of internal parts, including seals & bearings.

Buying a used LPG vehicle is better value; as long as it has been looked after and still has a few years left on the tank.

Never heard of heard of periodical inspection & leak testing requirements other than the 10 year test requirement for the tank.

Engine oil can have same problems with petrol engine if driven under severe conditions so no real difference.

In a nut shell running engine on gas is not really any more expensive in maintenance cost compared to petrol engine.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by trublu

Never heard of heard of periodical inspection & leak testing requirements other than the 10 year test requirement for the tank.

Engine oil can have same problems with petrol engine if driven under severe conditions so no real difference.

In a nut shell running engine on gas is not really any more expensive in maintenance cost compared to petrol engine.

It's in the vehicle service book, some vehicle manufactures give an extra 20 - 50 minutes service charge to complete the extra work. I also have a licence to install & service/maintain LPG.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by johnydep

It's in the vehicle service book, some vehicle manufactures give an extra 20 - 50 minutes service charge to complete the extra work. I also have a licence to install & service/maintain LPG.

Surely a leak test with soapy water spray bottle would only take 20minutes max assuming system does'nt have any major leaks?

[staity]

I owned 2 BF XR6 falcons at the same time, sedan on petrol, Ute on Factory fitted dedicated Gas, had the Ute 6 years sedan for 4. To answer the OP, YES!!!! dedicate gas is a very good cheap option for a runaround car. No extra costs associated with ownership, performance while nowhere near the petrol engine, was still good enough to have some fun, and and the only downsides I found were:
1. An intermittent backfire through the airbox which on one occasion moved the air filter sideways and clamped down on it causing it to break. Luckily I picked up on that the next day and got a new filter quick smart.
2. On occasions the fuel sender would wig out and tell you the tank was empty when you just filled up, I learned to ignore that, and after running out of fuel one day with the tank showing 1/4 full, I learned to use the trip meter as a quasi fuel gauge so i knew when to fill up.
3. 10 year gas tank removal for pressure test. although I sold the car before needing to do this it is still an extra fact you need to consider.

All in all the Egas is a good car, great for a second vehicle if the need is to keep fuel costs down is a priority. It can still get up and boogie reasonably well, more kW would have been great but if you want power you buy the petrol, but you know that.

Hope that helps mate. Anything else you want to know just ask.

[Davehoos]

leak test is performed every year with rego roadworthy in nsw after the first 5 years for this we pay extra few dollars.

electronic leak test wand,cheep reliable. Soap and water you may as well walk around and smell it as most service leaks are internal.

ford service times add loads of extra dollars to the running cost -unrealistic service dollars. It can be difficult to get a service insurance policy to cover these.

basically works out the same for maintainence running cost unless you buy a modern hi-tech system that might go for many years without repairs. If you can find someone that will repair these.

[Evgeni]

I've had an AU and BA dedicated gas from new and both were great - the BA admittedly had a few more issues with the ignition system, but I think that was down to the type of spark plugs that Ford had used. I didn't do anymore maintenence than I would have for a petrol and made 200000km's in each.
From memory they had a 90l tank and I would get around 450kms out of each tank driving around Sydney. Back then, gas was anywhere between 33c to 44c, loved it.

I currently have a duel fuel AU with an Impco system, again little maintenence and well over 300000kms at the moment and still idles the way it did when I bought it.
The big advantage I find with duel fuel is that the petrol companies kindly jack up the lpg price in the summer months, so the savings on lpg is almost line ball. Can have the best of both with the duel fuel.

[prydey]

i had a BF2 egas wagon for a couple of years. faultless car. ave 17l/100km urban (ave 35km/h) and 12l/100km extra urban (ave 80km/h).

consumption is highish, but considering the bowser prices, was still cheaper than petrol.

servicing costs weren't much different. sure, spark plugs need changing more regularly, but we are talking 100000km compared to 150000 for petrol. i didn't do a lot of km's in mine so changed the plugs a bit earlier at around 70000.

performance wise, they were a bit tardy off the line, but once up and rolling, performance was plenty good enough for what it was (shopping trolley, family wagon).

depending on your expectations, i think the egas cars are still great cars.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by johnydep

It's in the vehicle service book, some vehicle manufactures give an extra 20 - 50 minutes service charge to complete the extra work. I also have a licence to install & service/maintain LPG.

Take away the ford service then it is irrelevant, Davehoos comment makes sense for rego RWC renewal but otherwise no one else will do this.

[marty351]

5.8 XE falcon about $30 for 280-300ks on lpg, 2.0 scorpion for the same kms $70.
Almost 3x engine size and 3x power.... I could hardly believe it myself. (this was back in 2004-2010).

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by trublu

Take away the ford service then it is irrelevant, Davehoos comment makes sense for rego RWC renewal but otherwise no one else will do this.

I'm not making it up! If the vehicle is service as per vehicle recommendation, there will be extra work required which will cost a little more.

Yes you can give those extras a miss, just like you can give the log book service a miss & just change the oil & filter only. Is it good? I wouldn't buy a used car with poor service records, & I recommend the same to all my customers.

For someone that drives the same car every day, the car always feels ok, until a plug fails, or the convertor dies. For those that drive many a similar model but a different car each day, they get to feel & see the difference between a well maintained by the book car & those that are irregularly serviced or serviced by the guy that thinks the log book is wasted paper.

So the sensible recommendation to the op is -
There are additional costs to take into account:

LPG fuel filter.
LPG lines, convertor & tank require periodical inspection & leak testing.
LPG tank requires testing & approval every 10 years.
Spark plugs require replacement earlier than petrol.
Cleanliness of the engine oil is deceiving; even though there is less carbon produced and the oil looks clean, LPG burn creates a lot of acid and moisture - the oil looks clean but can be extremely acidic, which causes increase corrosion of internal parts, including seals & bearings.

Buying a used LPG vehicle is better value; as long as it has been looked after and still has a few years left on the tank.

Rather than - don't worry about what the vehicle manufacturers service recommendation says

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I don't think the factory systems are prone to backfiring like some of the cheaper aftermarket dual fuel kits, but Ford gave them stronger rods just incase. I believe they take longer to start as well.

Not quite true, you need to consider the driveability issues around EGAS, they will backfire at some stage, they will run rough occasionally on start up(worse when you shut down before the engine reaches full operating temp) and need the gas jet cleaned regularly to kept running smooth.
If I handed the keys to my missus and she gets stuck in the middle of traffic trying to restart a backfired engine, she will forget how cheap it to run pretty quickly.I had 2 EGASers, I speak from experience.
My EcoLPI though had all the benefits of petrol as far as driveability is concerned and would be awesome if the budget can stretch that far.

[sgt_doofey]

Been driving a dual fuel EL for the last 15 years until recently. It was cheaper to run than a petrol Corolla we had use of a number of years ago.
It's pretty much line ball with the Peugeot 2.0l turbo diesel that we have.
Extra servicing costs? When it starts running like crap, take it to a gas mechanic and get it tuned for about $70. Otherwise, it's no different to any other petrol variant of the same car.

According to the stats I have, the average cost per kilometre was 10c. This is on a 17 year old car, dual fuel setup which is the old mixer ring setup.

[Rabidus Fulgore]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So whats wrong with doing an install yourself?

Find a nice low km BF, get SVI system installed and its miles better than any eGas and only marginally as sophisticated as the EcoLPI.

I had a SVI system on my old AU I6 and if it wasnt for a family member bending the car I would still have it. It was awesome, no power difference and you couldnt even tell when the LPG kicked in.

Forget vapour unless you're buying an uncommon car or plan radical mods.
Buy any I6 Falcon you want, they're as cheap as chips, its a buyers market.
Fit Orbital LPi for $4k. ZERO power loss, approximately 20% more fuel use.
You get a fuel that is cleaner than Premium ULP, at around half the cost.

[EBII Fairmont]

My previous car was a straight petrol BAMKII Futura. I loved driving that car and mainly due to the engine. But it was heavy on the juice. I recently was in the market looking for a gas falcon ute. I really liked the ecolpi as it its more fuel efficient and has more power than the egas. But I still can't complain as I did in the end purchase and early fg egas ute due to the price difference. My ute is a tray back and before putting the canopy on it i would average close to 400km and then fill up as it always sat around the quarter mark on the fuel gauge. I will spend at that point around $40 to fill. That is a 90lt(two doughnut tanks) and it has a 20% air gap in the tank. I wish I had the power of the ecolpi but I still can't complain with the the egas. It has backfired once while trying to start but caused no damage at all and still ran fine when it did start. Overall I have had quite a positive experience.

[GasoLane]

All this waffling on about extra money for servicing the LPG part.

We had a great IMPCO system fitted to our old barge, in the 8 years we had it we never ever had a 'Gas service' other than the usual roadworthy check.

We sold it at 240,000k's and it was still running great.
The only LPG problem we had was the changeover switch broke, that was expensive.....Genuine IMPCO $32

If I could get LPG on our current car we'd do it tomorrow.

[Aulpgute]

My 2 cents worth as a longterm (20 yr) lpg user:

- AU2 egas ute from 2003 to 2009 covering 150k. Awesome work hack, minimal backfiring with good plugs gapped correctly and good leads, had one converter replaced early on under warranty. Ok for towing up to a ton but after that the gas consumption was shocking, towing a 2 ton boat in 35 degree summer heat could be as bad as 35 gas litres per 100kms but as a light/medium duty run around it was great.

- BA2 egas Futura from 2009 to 2012 covering 70k. Great run around sedan, never towed so gas consumption was never an issue, learned from the AU about the ignition components so no backfiring, unless you drove it back to back with a petrol car you probably wouldn't really miss the lack of top end.

- Hilux dualcab 4x2 2006 4.0l petrol auto on Impco SVI duel fuel 2009 to now and covered 190k so far. Had it converted when i bought it and from memory it was a $4500 job with a $2500 rebate at the time. With the price of LPG vs petrol at the time with my average 700kms per week it was a no brainer. Never an issue with the conversion, more torque on gas and only loses a slight edge above 4500rpm which I rarely see. As gas prices crept up it didn't really feel like i have been saving that much however a recent experiment when gas was hard to get was an eye opener. Gas ended up still being only 2/3 of the cost of petrol over the exact same conditions and distance.

As per a lot of the above posts I believe it is still viable if you can buy a vehicle already equipped with it at a good price. My trusty Hilux will be due for replacement sometime soon but I doubt I would do the same exercise again as it wouldn't be as viable without the rebate and also considering how far the diesel offerings have come in recent years. If you are going 'old school' then gas is hard to beat if you are doing big miles, had a couple of old F100's with Clevo's on straight gas with great results. Hope you can take something from this.

[OzJavelin]

Wife's FG 2009 EGas XR6 ute .. bought secondhand at 20,000km .. 150,000km on the odo now .. tows an extended horsefloat every weekend (she just left today 350km one-way trip with it this morning). Plenty of towing power and more than enough speed to get you into trouble very quickly. On paper it doens't look too impressive, but I suspect as it's all torque low down in real world situations it's significantly more impressive. Average consumption is approx 14.5L/100 via the trip computer; hasn't been reset for a long, long time so will include all that towing. Had tank senders replaced about 50,000km ago but that's it for LPG-specific issues. Originally I didn't like it, but I've grown to respect it and I will likely inherit it later this year when she gets a dual-cab-diesel-something. I'll be happy "owning" it.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Whats the cost of an aftermarket SVI/LPI installation? Cost my neighbour $4K and wiring wasn't crimped properly which I had to fix as they had done it with pliers.

$4K is a lot of $$$ which could go towards the EcoLPI

My injected LPG setup cost $3k after the rebate. But it's saved me $15k in fuel over 4 years. $12k net savings is a lot of $$$ which could not only go towards, but fully purchase another B-Series + get a new injected LPG system installed, with cash to spare.

[gaz084]

I have owned three bseries Egas utes and now have the petrol territory.

Egas utes the manual gave me 500-550 km per tank mixed driving

The auto Egas ute gives me 450-500 km per tank mixed driving

Both cost between $50-60 to fill

Ford territory petrol auto between 500-550km mixed driving

Cost to fill between $90-100.

Performance difference between the two is the same in the lower rpm,you just feel the petrol hit abit harder in the upper rpm.

The Egas is no performance monster if you want power don't go buying an egas.
Another thing with the Egas is you have to know how to look after them or have a mechanic preferably one that also services taxis.