V-facts- Sept 08 - Page 2

loltastic · 04-10-2008, 04:50 PM

I agree with you, but the extra features the Corolla has over the Focus just makes it all the more easier for someone to be swayed into the Corolla regardless of reputation. My original post was directed to the guy who couldn't understand why Focus isn't selling better - it's because it's not got the kit the other cars do, and it's the same price, if not more expensive. If Ford want to crack into that segment in a big way they need to at least match the kit of their rivals.

Wretched · 04-10-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

I agree with you, but the extra features the Corolla has over the Focus just makes it all the more easier for someone to be swayed into the Corolla regardless of reputation. My original post was directed to the guy who couldn't understand why Focus isn't selling better - it's because it's not got the kit the other cars do, and it's the same price, if not more expensive.

Fair enough and agreed, Ford need to offer more. The UK spec Focus offer a lot better features (would have been nice to get some of the ST options when i got the XR). Hopefully with the face lifted model they will offer some better standard features or at least options.

phillyc · 04-10-2008, 07:44 PM

Wonder if the increase in Falcon sales had anything to do with the 5 Star NCAP result that Ford were pumping for a few weeks?

XR Martin · 04-10-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

Have you seen the amount of kit you get in a new Corolla? Compare it to a Focus then come back. The base Corolla is cheaper and the top line is the same price as the Focus Ghia - yet the amount of kit is worlds apart. The Focus is terribly overpriced and underkitted in that segment.

Urrhh, theres $2k difference between Ghia Hatch and Levin ZR Hatch. And $2.5k between Ghia Sedan and Ultima sedan.

And the headlights in the Corolla and Projector, not HIDs.
An '88 Fairlane had projector lights....

XR Martin · 04-10-2008, 08:10 PM

Corolla also doesnt have ESP, electric driver's seat, dual zone climate, and I cant find anything about them having Rain sensing wipers either.

Martyvan · 04-10-2008, 09:40 PM

Ford have to be happy to have a plus result in a negative environment.

New Fiesta will bring back some people... but, unfortunately, might steal sales from Focus... Focus needs some price and marketing, but no one will ever get the cardigan brigade out of the Corolla. Would love to see the demographic of people purchasing them, my guess would be a lot of 35 to 40+ or retiree's looking for economical new transport... the funniest thing is my Corolla uses 25-30% more fuel than its sticker... so go figure...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

1448 wagons! Wow, that 800 figure of mine was just a guess, way off the mark it would seem. They are a damn good looking wagon....

Just remember, a whole lot of fleets had extended their old leases (the company i work for included) waiting for the sport wagon +250 ordered in one hit (unsure of their entire registration status.

Feedback from my co-workers: Great to drive compared to VY/VZ, Terrible to load stuff into.....! Just cant fit stuff in..... heard the quote from someone high up "The new have ones have the same luggage capacity, with the seats down!"

loltastic · 04-10-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Urrhh, theres $2k difference between Ghia Hatch and Levin ZR Hatch. And $2.5k between Ghia Sedan and Ultima sedan.

And the headlights in the Corolla and Projector, not HIDs.
An '88 Fairlane had projector lights....

Where are your figures taken from?

Fords website says the Focus sedan/hatch Ghia, which comes standard with a 4 speed auto retails for $29,490.

Toyotas website says Corolla Levin ZR retails for $29,500.

Corolla doesn't seem to have ESP, but has more airbags than Focus, and they are HIDs according to Toyota.

XR Martin · 04-10-2008, 10:04 PM

Levin ZR Auto is $31500.
You cant compare manual price to an auto one, especially when the Auto has the majority of sales.

loltastic · 04-10-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Levin ZR Auto is $31500.
You cant compare manual price to an auto one, especially when the Auto has the majority of sales.

The manual is $29,500 - 6sp manual. The Focus doesn't come with a manual option in Ghia spec. Why the hell is that?

LOL - hang on a second buddy, what are you talking about? The Focus doesn't come with a manual, the Corolla does, so now the Focus is cheaper because "auto is the majority of sales" ? Who cares. That's not what we're talking about.

XR Martin · 04-10-2008, 10:11 PM

XR Martin · 04-10-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

The manual is $29,500 - 6sp manual. The Focus doesn't come with a manual option in Ghia spec. Why the hell is that?

LOL - hang on a second buddy, what are you talking about? The Focus doesn't come with a manual, the Corolla does, so now the Focus is cheaper because "auto is the majority of sales" ? Who cares. That's not what we're talking about.

You realise 90% of new car sales are Auto? Even more so with high spec models. So its irrelevant that its cheaper, since no one buys a manual anyway. Its like years ago a Commodore was $2k cheaper than a Falcon, but it didnt come with A/C, everyone buys A/C, so it ended up being $500 more expensive. Hell you'd be lucky to find a dealer with a manual Levin ZR available without something like a 3 month wait, they know you arnt going to wait that long so you end up getting an Auto anyway, even if you didnt want it.
Its an old ploy, its cheaper on paper, but by the time you drive it off the dealer lot you atleast $2k worse off.

loltastic · 04-10-2008, 10:22 PM

I'm just quoting what Toyota have on their website - seems like conflicting evidence...

That's a bit like saying once you option up metallic paint, paint protection, ORC, electronic rust proofing the car will be more expensive. The fact is in that model, the Focus doesn't have a manual option and the Corolla does. I can go down to my local Toyota dealer Monday and buy a manual Corolla because I know there's a couple there.

I feel we're way off track and I'm repeating myself.

BeStRaFe · 04-10-2008, 10:39 PM

only ultima and levin (ZR only) have hid's
the base model mods have standard projector headlights.
as those 2 models also have auto headlights and rain sensing whipers

Rodp · 04-10-2008, 10:46 PM

Ford have to be bouyed by that result. A rise in sales in the face of the rest of the large car market suffering a decent decline.

Let's hope they keep it going.

Swordsman88 · 04-10-2008, 11:15 PM

Sure is hard work moving cars out in the market at the moment....Ford has done well to keeps its head above water. Its is obvious that Holden has alot of sportswagon in those numbers, which is fine by me except it is probably inflated on account of recent launch. Over the next few months depending on fleet sales i think Falcon will get pretty close to Commodore (at least Sedan vs Sedan sales).

Mondeo seems to have settled into its 400-500 sale area, which is good to see since it is on target. Was at a dealer today RE a FG purchase for a friend of the family and good to see two Focus sales while i was waiting in the foyer....maybe the new ads are working at least to some degree. Also saw a territory sold....given its age it isn't doing too bad with high fuel prices hurting as well.

Holden seems to be struggling.....most of its cars are down on last year by quite a bit. Mazda is up alot though.....new/additonal models help there i suppose. Its clear Focus needs to get more attention from buyers....whatever your view on it it is clear it deserves at least 2000 sales a month.

snappy · 05-10-2008, 01:04 AM

Well its a positive result for ford i'd imagine they would like more and if they eventually reach there goal.
If the amount of fg falcons i saw today in geelong was anything to go bye they will.
I saw a wedding party today with 3 fg f6 2 and 2 g6et's mind you mind first real life sighting of an fpv must say very nice well all were really nice. Also from the centre of geelong to home approx a 10km drive i say at least 15 fg of various makes and one point they were like every 5th car . I think with ford's relaxed attitude to advertising on this model i think maybe just taken a little longer for people to hear about them and also spot them.

Swordsman88 · 05-10-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

Well its a positive result for ford i'd imagine they would like more and if they eventually reach there goal.
If the amount of fg falcons i saw today in geelong was anything to go bye they will.
I saw a wedding party today with 3 fg f6 2 and 2 g6et's mind you mind first real life sighting of an fpv must say very nice well all were really nice. Also from the centre of geelong to home approx a 10km drive i say at least 15 fg of various makes and one point they were like every 5th car . I think with ford's relaxed attitude to advertising on this model i think maybe just taken a little longer for people to hear about them and also spot them.

Don't know if geelong is the best case study snappy.....it is the home of Ford after all!!!! Either way i think Ford has really focussed on getting the right mix of cars in the line up (with mondeo on line now etc.) and with new Fiesta and updated Focus and territory they are poised for some forward momentum. Holden is the opposite, really struggling for much new product at the moment and just running plenty of ads and agressive pricing to move metal.

If ford can get the message out (and not just via advertising) about the great line up they have/will have then sales should stay pretty solid. I have been involved in purchasing a new FG and while they are doing good deals on older built cars that are around the place, new vehicles don't have huge discounts (well not like what holden is giving VEs away for). Cars like mondeo etc. are the same....they might not sell as many as Holden but are almost certainly making more per sale IMO. I know it is tough on guys working down in geelong/broadmeadows but ford's aggressive cost cutting and focus on matching production to demand is what is needed to make money.

BFZ Wagon · 05-10-2008, 05:38 AM

Gee the fleet buyers must be having fun buying up all those Mazda 3's, Corolla's and other FWD pieces of crap.

(Ford Fiesta, Focus & Mondeo are excluded from my 'FWD crap list' of course!) :P
Toyota sold a LOT of Landcruisers (up by 342

), Hilux 4x4's (2,185 - up by 198) and Prado's (1,044 - up by 72). I HATE the Prado & Landcruiser. Sick of seeing them doing the 'shopping & school runs' That's a LOT of thirsty V6 & V8 4x4's out there. I'm guessing only a small percentage would be diesel..? This is Australia after all. The people who are frightened by diesel & LPG fuelled vehicles!

That's enough from me. End of ->

:

**buggerlugs** · 05-10-2008, 08:06 AM

Local Holden dealer here on the coast has been advertising VE SS V8 Dunnydores plated 08 Automatics for cost plus a dollar $37,001.00 Driveaway. I don't know what the RRP is thou. Doesn't look like he's moved many either...........

aualright · 05-10-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

While some features would be nice to have on the Focus (damn Ford Aus not offering them) I can't imagine these are deal breakers for buyers. I am sorry but I am more inclined to believe people are flocking to the Corolla due to repuation/marketing. None of these features were offered with the previous model but it still sold about the same amount if not more. It has well known name, a good resale value and decent deals on offer, what fleet buyers want.

Look the Corolla does it's job fine and has been doing it for a long time. This is what I am getting at, it has a reputation of doing that and is a default option for most people. As soon as the others (Focus and 3) get such a repuation here they'll start selling just as well, ok the 3 is already.

Toyota dealers appear to offer better trade-ins and are more respectful to clients. That is my parents' experience who after having bought their last 2 Fords from Thomson Ford in Parramatta were subjected to an arrogant Sales Manager who offended my mother, in particular and despite their customer loyalty couldn't get more than a grand for their 93 TX5. Toyota offerred $2,000.

Hence the first Toyota purchase by them after having owned Fords forever. 80% service level, 20% trade-in.

****

**russellw** · 05-10-2008, 11:47 AM

Further to the discussion about how each of the three manufacturers (Ford, Holden, Toyota) have been faring with their individual models, the charts below look at both the three year and year on year performance for their respective models.

The table deals with the raw numbers on a year to date basis and shows the sales for each year, the variation between this year and last (as a number and a percentage) along with the variation over the 3 year period (also as a number and percentage).

The first chart looks at the percentage gains and losses for 2008 YTD against 2007 YTD for each model:

Year on year: Falcon has suffered less in percentage terms than either Commodore or Aurion; the Falcon and Hilux Utes have dropped similar percentages but the Commodore has gained substantial ground; the Fiesta has gained solid ground while the Barina and Yaris have dropped similar percentages; Focus and Astra have dropped similar amounts while Corolla has gained slightly and Territory has been a big loser while Captiva and Prado have gained slightly.

The last chart looks at the same figures but over the 3 year period 2006-2008.

Over the 3 years: Falcon has lost almost a quarter of total volume while the Commodore has lost a little and the Aurion has gained substantial ground - although it should be noted that the 2006 figures are for the unloved Less Patterson Special; the Commodore and Falcon Utes have both dropped although the Falcon has suffered worst but the Hilux Ute has gained; the Fiesta has gained solid ground while the Barina dropped sharply and the Yaris also dropped; Focus and Astra have dropped but the Astra suffered a bigger drop while Corolla has gained slightly and finally Territory has been a big loser while the Prado has gained good ground and the Captiva hasn't been on sale long enough to have any data.

We shall include this data in future monthly statistics figures.

Cheers
Russ

bathurst77 · 05-10-2008, 12:30 PM

Great info Russ! Thanks for that
Quick question tho what is "the unloved Less Patterson Special"?

**Fordman1** · 05-10-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Great info Russ! Thanks for that
Quick question tho what is "the unloved Less Patterson Special"?

Avalon ?

**russellw** · 05-10-2008, 12:47 PM

Correct - it is indeed the Avalon.

Romulus · 05-10-2008, 12:59 PM

Glad I contributed +1 for the MWB Transit Van. Damn good piece of equipment to boot, not like the Transit of old. 6 spd manual and 2.4l TDCI engine works superbly. Better priced than a Toyota Hiace D4D Van too!

Smoke Pursuit · 05-10-2008, 01:06 PM

How holden can outsell ford on the Commodore / Falcon race is beyond me, but id like to see a breakup of sedan vs. wagon.

bathurst77 · 05-10-2008, 01:22 PM

Right. got it.. remember the ads now. .thanks

Scott · 05-10-2008, 04:52 PM

10% for the Falcon variants is great news... seems odd to say that the Falcon's sales performance is propping UP Ford's figures!!

Airmon · 05-10-2008, 06:37 PM

Its funny how everyone in here seems to be putting down Fords marketing department as worthless compared to Holden, yet Ford sales are remaining steady while Holden's fall continually?
They seem to be doing a better Job to me.

Smoke Pursuit · 05-10-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airmon

Its funny how everyone in here seems to be putting down Fords marketing department as worthless compared to Holden, yet Ford sales are remaining steady while Holden's fall continually?
They seem to be doing a better Job to me.

Its different segments that are falling tho.. Falcon sedan should outsell commodore, but you have to remember that Falcon + Territory basically = Commy Sedan + Sportswagon, since we dont have a decent wagon and they dont have a home grown AWD.

Ford is doing okay, they really need to push the FG as being a better car then the competition, because it definately is.