Australia housing bubble

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Geesh you is a negative nellie at times leesa.....
Though I agree it is tougher than years ago to buy a house/mortgage... It IS still possible, once they set their sights a little, realistically lower!

Yeah, the scenario with the housing industry in Australia makes me pretty cranky.
I don't date so buying a house with a partner isn't going to happen and it's impossible to buy on your own unless you earn the income of two people.

When my dad was young he bought a house 5km from the city, on one income. I would just like to be able to do what the previous generations told me as I was growing up.... study hard, work hard and you can buy a house... but that's not necessarily true anymore, is it?
When looking at income/house price/interest rates, I earn more than he did back when he bought, comparatively speaking and even taking the high interest rates into account, so back then I would have easily been able to do what he did but I can't buy somewhere by myself even within 45 minutes of the city. I would just like the same opportunity as the previous generation - work hard and buy a house... but I can't. Lots of people can't, despite working really hard which is apparently all it should take. I also rent by myself which doesn't help.

It just annoys me that the housing industry has become an investment industry for people who don't need any more money. They've got a house but they want multiple houses so as to ride the equity wave to make them rich without them having to lift a finger. They're not even working hard to make that money! It's just greed, pure and simple. I'm not a greedy person so I have trouble understanding how people can morally gather more resources than they themselves need, at the expense of others. At a fundamental level it's not a trait that I have so to see that it's an every-man-for-themselves type society is a bit devastating I guess, yeah.

So now I just blow lots of money on hobbies and toys, knowing that the market is probably not likely to correct within my lifetime. And yeah, it does make me bitter, I can't seem to help it.

[roKWiz]

We also have to remember us middle age and older folk had long term jobs, pretty much guaranteed for life if we wanted them which helped in the repayments of big ticket items.
Younger generations now have short term work contracts which don't lend (no pun) themselves to saving and favourable mortgages.

FYI. my older brother (59 now) has never moved out of home, public servant for 40 years and never paid rent.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by leesa

It just annoys me that the housing industry has become an investment industry for people who don't need any more money. They've got a house but they want multiple houses so as to ride the equity wave to make them rich without them having to lift a finger. They're not even working hard to make that money! It's just greed, pure and simple. I'm not a greedy person so I have trouble understanding how people can morally gather more resources than they themselves need, at the expense of others. At a fundamental level it's not a trait that I have so to see that it's an every-man-for-themselves type society is a bit devastating I guess, yeah.

We did work hard and now we are financially secure. That's what you fail to understand You've somehow morphed the fact that people can succeed though hard graft to a social injustice crime. Go ahead, be the bitter victim for all that helps you..

Originally Posted by leesa

So now I just blow lots of money on hobbies and toys, knowing that the market is probably not likely to correct within my lifetime. And yeah, it does make me bitter, I can't seem to help it.

And that's why you'll always be a renter, to people like me, who did work hard and went without to get ahead...

Originally Posted by roKWiz

We also have to remember us middle age and older folk had long term jobs, pretty much guaranteed for life if we wanted them which helped in the repayments of big ticket items.
Younger generations now have short term work contracts which don't lend (no pun) themselves to saving and favourable mortgages.

FYI. my older brother (59 now) has never moved out of home, public servant for 40 years and never paid rent.

Yeah, I remember being told by many older people that you could get a job in a factory once you left school and that'd be enough to buy a house and support a family so you could stay in that job for 30 years.
That part is definitely not true anymore. You have to study, get hired and then job-hop every few years to chase a pay increase. Life is nothing like what I was told growing up so I feel a bit rorted, yeah.

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

We did work hard and now we are financially secure. That's what you fail to understand You've somehow morphed the fact that people can succeed though hard graft to a social injustice crime. Go ahead, be the bitter victim for all that helps you..

And that's why you'll always be a renter, to people like me, who did work hard and went without to get ahead...

You've got it the wrong way around. I'm not houseless because I blow lots of money. I blow lots of money because I know I'll always be houseless, so I may aswell enjoy life a bit. It has a very different meaning.

As for you both working hard and now you're financially secure... that's great but did you do it by yourself? You saved a deposit and bought a house on one income? Not two? If so, may I ask what your line of work is?

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by leesa

You've got it the wrong way around. I'm not houseless because I blow lots of money. I blow lots of money because I know I'll always be houseless, so I may aswell enjoy life a bit. It has a very different meaning.

As for you both working hard and now you're financially secure... that's great but did you do it by yourself? You saved a deposit and bought a house on one income? Not two? If so, may I ask what your line of work is?

I bought in Footscray in 1985 on one wage. I was a clerk. I grew up in Balwyn but I really wanted to own my own home. So I went where I had to.

You don't have to be houseless, but you're choosing to be so because you can't buy where you want to live.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

You don't have to be houseless, but you're choosing to be so because you can't buy where you want to live.

^^ This.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by leesa

You've got it the wrong way around. I'm not houseless because I blow lots of money. I blow lots of money because I know I'll always be houseless, so I may aswell enjoy life a bit. It has a very different meaning.

As for you both working hard and now you're financially secure... that's great but did you do it by yourself? You saved a deposit and bought a house on one income? Not two? If so, may I ask what your line of work is?

i have a house and im a very basic dyslexic bogan

i done it all myself

am i cool??

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

I bought in Footscray in 1985 on one wage. I was a clerk. I grew up in Balwyn but I really wanted to own my own home. So I went where I had to.

You don't have to be houseless, but you're choosing to be so because you can't buy where you want to live.

I get what you're saying but I don't think it's an equal comparison to today's circumstances as housing was still very affordable on one wage in 1985.

I'm not choosing to be houseless because I can't buy where I want to live. I lacked foresight when picking a career to study (before housing went up) and have later discovered that the job doesn't exist outside of capital cities. If I moved away I wouldn't find work. I don't think I'd have any trouble getting a regular job but it'd pay a lot less than I already earn and so I'd probably be in the same boat.
It's not all grim though. I'm shuffling across to a related industry that should have more work prospects in other regions.

Originally Posted by pottery beige

i have a house and im a very basic dyslexic bogan

i done it all myself

am i cool??

You're superman, truly. It's hard as hell so you must have worked hard.
If I may ask, what is your line of work? What year did you buy and did you also rent while you saved for the deposit?

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

i have a house and im a very basic dyslexic bogan

i done it all myself

am i cool??

Only cause you got a VT shaggin bus.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by leesa

You're superman, truly. It's hard as hell so you must have worked hard.
If I may ask, what is your line of work? What year did you buy and did you also rent while you saved for the deposit?

i got serious about the situation i was in and made a house happen

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

Only cause you got a VT shaggin bus.

im still a tight rs

Originally Posted by pottery beige

i got serious about the situation i was in and made a house happen



im still a tight rs

But how'd you do it?
If within the past 10ish years you've started saving a deposit, also paid rent and all other living expenses and then finally bought a house without any outside source of help and on one income..... you should be very proud of yourself.
Share your secrets!

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by leesa

But how'd you do it?
If within the past 10ish years you've started saving a deposit, also paid rent and all other living expenses and then finally bought a house without any outside source of help and on one income..... you should be very proud of yourself.
Share your secrets!

no secrets

less shiny stuff

make it happen

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by leesa

But how'd you do it?
If within the past 10ish years you've started saving a deposit, also paid rent and all other living expenses and then finally bought a house without any outside source of help and on one income..... you should be very proud of yourself.
Share your secrets!

I'm not trying to create an argument but it is possible. I started working at 17 and didn't blow my whole wage each week. My kid came about at 22 and I was renting from then until I bought at 25. So yes there was a dual income, but i wasnt earning much, only to the tune of about 45k and the wife was only making around 32k. I dont know if it's still a thing or not but I paid only 5% deposit and borrowed just under 500k. Even just speaking to a mortgage broker can give you more of an idea of what's required. 6 years on 500k wont buy anything where I live now, but then i bought where i could and learned to adapt to the area because it is further out then I have lived before. That's the thing to a degree. I stepped well away from where I wanted but had no hope to afford, so I went west a bit to where I could afford it and adapted. I still work in the city and what was a 20 minute trip in the morning is now 45 on a good run, but to know that my repayments wont drastically change in a heartbeat like rent can I'm willing to make the sacrifice. These days without the wife anymore, my wage has gone up and i can pay the lot myself because whilst the cost of living goes up my cost of housing is the constant.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by leesa

I'm not choosing to be houseless because I can't buy where I want to live. I lacked foresight when picking a career to study (before housing went up) and have later discovered that the job doesn't exist outside of capital cities. If I moved away I wouldn't find work. I don't think I'd have any trouble getting a regular job but it'd pay a lot less than I already earn and so I'd probably be in the same boat.
It's not all grim though. I'm shuffling across to a related industry that should have more work prospects in other regions.

I was not able to buy in an area I liked in Sydney-and did not want to live 1 hour plus odd out west. I was on one income, supporting my partner and a newborn baby.

So I moved to Newcastle where I was able to afford a house reasonably close in to the Newcastle CBD.

But I had the opportunity of obtaining similar work to that in Sydney for similar $$$.

So I feel for you- but as others have said- do not be a victim and no point frittering money away giving up. That is a bit like being a drug addict- giving up for instant gratification.

Plan and implement steps now to maximize flexibility in your earning capacity so that you can derive an income in other cities/towns where you can get a foot in the market. And you may well find that your life improves by living in much nicer environment.

The earlier you stop being victim, take control, and start the better off you will be when you set yourself up.

[Beastie]

Leesa,

I'm not going to say what is right or wrong, because everyone's situation is different...

I bought my first investment property at the ripe old age of 19 back in 1987 at 17.5% interest on a wage of roughly $1000 / month. It wasn't a house, it was a one bedroom flat.

Yes, I still lived at home at the time and yes my parents gave me great financial advice (bricks & mortar are a safe investment), but my point is you can do it.

I didn't go out partying with my mates, I didn't buy fancy cars (although I wish I did in some ways - hindsight is a wonderful thing), I just put every spare penny I had into supplementing the mortgage over and above the rent I was collecting...

If you want to buy a house (property), you can do it. It might not be the dream house that we all want, but you have to start somewhere.

The hardest part about owning a house is starting...

You may be surprised how much "rent" would get you if you could top that up slightly to cover a mortgage...

Have you spoken to a bank / financial adviser?

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by asagaai

I was not able to buy in an area I liked in Sydney-and did not want to live 1 hour odd out west.

Mate, that statement was my initial thoughts buying a house in Sydney but I work in high rise commercial buildings (as an electrician) so I made the sacrifice to continue working in the better environments. Yes travel sucks, but I dont have to pay anything car related for work because I drive a company vehicle. Fair enough if you have to pay your own way to work and the extra distance adds to your growing list of expenses, but in my case it just eats into my personal time which doesn't have a dollar value. But it's the price I pay for the better work (not better pay unfortunately).

Originally Posted by .:4:.

I'm not trying to create an argument but it is possible. I started working at 17 and didn't blow my whole wage each week. My kid came about at 22 and I was renting from then until I bought at 25. So yes there was a dual income, but i wasnt earning much, only to the tune of about 45k and the wife was only making around 32k. I dont know if it's still a thing or not but I paid only 5% deposit and borrowed just under 500k. Even just speaking to a mortgage broker can give you more of an idea of what's required. 6 years on 500k wont buy anything where I live now, but then i bought where i could and learned to adapt to the area because it is further out then I have lived before. That's the thing to a degree. I stepped well away from where I wanted but had no hope to afford, so I went west a bit to where I could afford it and adapted. I still work in the city and what was a 20 minute trip in the morning is now 45 on a good run, but to know that my repayments wont drastically change in a heartbeat like rent can I'm willing to make the sacrifice. These days without the wife anymore, my wage has gone up and i can pay the lot myself because whilst the cost of living goes up my cost of housing is the constant.

That sounds... intense. How do you service a 500'000 loan on 77k combined income? That'd be almost $600 a week. My income is more than your combined income was but I couldn't imagine paying $600/week. After you take out electricity, gas, phone bill, rego, fuel, insurances and groceries you'd have barely a dollar to your name. What happens if you have an emergency?

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by leesa

That sounds... intense. How do you service a 500'000 loan on 77k combined income? That'd be almost $600 a week. My income is more than your combined income was but I couldn't imagine paying $600/week. After you take out electricity, gas, phone bill, rego, fuel, insurances and groceries you'd have barely a dollar to your name. What happens if you have an emergency?

You deal with it.

Originally Posted by .:4:.

Yes travel sucks, but I dont have to pay anything car related for work because I drive a company vehicle. Fair enough if you have to pay your own way to work and the extra distance adds to your growing list of expenses, but in my case it just eats into my personal time which doesn't have a dollar value. But it's the price I pay for the better work (not better pay unfortunately).

That's a huge benefit that most people don't get though. 45 minutes each way would probably be a tank a week so maybe $80/week and then parking costs to park at work for the day, rego $900/year, insurance let's say $800, I won't including servicing. That's at least $6000/year you're saving that the average person isn't, not including parking costs as it's such a variable.

For every person that I ask how they managed to get into the housing market, there always seems to be one big factor or lucky break in their lifestyle. Like they got to live rent-free at home while they saved a deposit, or they got an inheritance, or they have a company car which frees up their own money.

I'm not disputing that you had to have worked hard to get your house but if you had that company car back when you first got your house... that's a massive advantage that the average person doesn't get.

[ebzery]

move bush you can still get a home for 100 to 200 thousand

[ebzery]

i would like a house at the gold coast or coffs or any other coastal town but 600plus is just a joke

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by leesa

Yeah, the scenario with the housing industry in Australia makes me pretty cranky.
I don't date so buying a house with a partner isn't going to happen and it's impossible to buy on your own unless you earn the income of two people.

When my dad was young he bought a house 5km from the city, on one income. I would just like to be able to do what the previous generations told me as I was growing up.... study hard, work hard and you can buy a house... but that's not necessarily true anymore, is it?
When looking at income/house price/interest rates, I earn more than he did back when he bought, comparatively speaking and even taking the high interest rates into account, so back then I would have easily been able to do what he did but I can't buy somewhere by myself even within 45 minutes of the city. I would just like the same opportunity as the previous generation - work hard and buy a house... but I can't. Lots of people can't, despite working really hard which is apparently all it should take. I also rent by myself which doesn't help.

It just annoys me that the housing industry has become an investment industry for people who don't need any more money. They've got a house but they want multiple houses so as to ride the equity wave to make them rich without them having to lift a finger. They're not even working hard to make that money! It's just greed, pure and simple. I'm not a greedy person so I have trouble understanding how people can morally gather more resources than they themselves need, at the expense of others. At a fundamental level it's not a trait that I have so to see that it's an every-man-for-themselves type society is a bit devastating I guess, yeah.

So now I just blow lots of money on hobbies and toys, knowing that the market is probably not likely to correct within my lifetime. And yeah, it does make me bitter, I can't seem to help it.

*bump

*a mirror has all your answers

Originally Posted by pottery beige

*bump

*a mirror has all your answers

Judging by your post history you've got to be around 50 years old, hardly a comparable experience to what later generations are going through in the current housing market given the income/house ratio is far worse than it was.
How can you even comment knowing that 'your time' was prior to when the housing market inflated?

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by leesa

That sounds... intense. How do you service a 500'000 loan on 77k combined income? That'd be almost $600 a week. My income is more than your combined income was but I couldn't imagine paying $600/week. After you take out electricity, gas, phone bill, rego, fuel, insurances and groceries you'd have barely a dollar to your name. What happens if you have an emergency?

That was a 77k combined income back then. It was a struggle back then. Now it's all on my shoulders but bills and $580 per week for a mortgage isn't bad considering I earn more now then back then.

[ebzery]

the housing market in nsw first got inflated in the 80s due to the first home buyers payment from the government dropped then reintroduced in 2000 was house prices go up by 3 fold due to anyone able to buy without saving a cent

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by leesa

That's a huge benefit that most people don't get though. 45 minutes each way would probably be a tank a week so maybe $80/week and then parking costs to park at work for the day, rego $900/year, insurance let's say $800, I won't including servicing. That's at least $6000/year you're saving that the average person isn't, not including parking costs as it's such a variable.

For every person that I ask how they managed to get into the housing market, there always seems to be one big factor or lucky break in their lifestyle. Like they got to live rent-free at home while they saved a deposit, or they got an inheritance, or they have a company car which frees up their own money.

I'm not disputing that you had to have worked hard to get your house but if you had that company car back when you first got your house... that's a massive advantage that the average person doesn't get.

I still own a personal car. It gets hard taking more then 1 passenger around in a single cab ute. So rego and insurances etc still apply to me. It's just driving to and from work that I do not have to pay for.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by leesa

Judging by your post history you've got to be around 50 years old, hardly a comparable experience to what later generations are going through in the current housing market given the income/house ratio is far worse than it was.

How can you even comment knowing that 'your time' was prior to when the housing market inflated?

Leesa, which part of 17.5% versus 4% interest is it that you don’t understand?

You’ve fallen in love with your problem. Stop being a victim.

Originally Posted by .:4:.

That was a 77k combined income back then. It was a struggle back then. Now it's all on my shoulders but bills and $580 per week for a mortgage isn't bad considering I earn more now then back then.

You're brave. far braver than I. I wouldn't risk that size of a mortgage.