The drug "Ice"

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by JC

The root cause? The root cause is meth and it needs to be stopped - it is the black plague of our time......

Originally Posted by goo33

Any Meth Addict costs society/community (whatever)TWENTY TIMES what a heroin addict costs us.

Doubters can google that.

Any idea how much damage just one heroin addict can do in a night?

Angola is a prison farm, the size of a small country, and, far as I know, pays for itself.

I hope bleeding hearts get a meth lab next door. Then the niave tunes'll change.

Originally Posted by goo33

The US doesn't mess around with meth heads:

Ricky Minor, a meth addict and father of three, was found with 1.2 grams of meth in his home, along with over-the-counter decongestants that can be used to manufacture meth. Judge Clyde Roger Vinson to sentenced him to life without parole.

Life without parole.

Originally Posted by superyob

Hang drug dealers/distributors/mules... The answer is in plain sight...

Yeh I know, 'it won't work because...'

I bet it will put a stop to the plague proportions of users though...

No worries, lets just burn them all like Hitler did to the Jews, problem solved right? Because drug users aren't human beings like the rest of us, they aren't worth any effort.

Invoking Godwin's law 9 pages into discussion.

Regardless of addiction they are still living and breathing human beings and maybe we lend a helping hand rather than stomping on their heads while they lay in the gutter.

Seems like when you hit rock bottom there isn't a shortage of people willing to sink the boot in while you're down, and that applies to everything in life, not just drug addiction.

The USA already knows it has a problem with its MASSIVE prison population, and its come to a point where its not economical to house more prisoners or build new prisons.

The United States has an enormous prison problem. A more-than-2.4-million-prisoner-sized problem, to be precise, locked up in the archipelago of federal penitentiaries, state corrections facilities, and local jailhouses that form the nation's thriving prison-industrial complex. Since 1980, the number of incarcerated citizens in the US has more than quadrupled, an unprecedented rise that can attributed to four decades of tough-on-crime oneupmanship, and a draconian war on drugs.

Today, more than one out of every 100 Americans is behind bars, and the US has the largest prison population in the world, both in terms of the actual number of inmates and as a percentage of the total population. The numbers are staggering: the US incarceration rate is nearly 3.5 times higher than that of Mexico, a country that has spent the last decade in the throes of an actual drug war, and between five and ten times higher than those seen in Western Europe. There are more people locked up in the US than in China. In fact, the US is home to nearly a quarter of the world's prisoners, despite accounting for just 5 percent of the overall global population.

As the chart shows, 36 states have higher incarceration rates than Cuba, the country with the world's second highest prison rate. New York comes in just above Rwanda, which is still trying thousands of people in connection to the 1994 genocide. Even Vermont, birthplace of Phish, Ben & Jerry's, and the country's only socialist senator, imprisons a higher percentage of its population than countries like Israel, Mexico, or Saudi Arabia.

Looked at in terms of actual inmate numbers, this means that the number of people behind bars in most US states is on par with the prison populations of entire nations. And not Luxembourg or Burundi. Big, messy countries, like Venezuela and Egypt.

https://news.vice.com/article/the-ma...lem-in-america

People seem to forget about rehabilitation, everyone just wants punishment, punishment, punishment.

[superyob]

Where have I ever suggested that we hang drug users? And how does this relate to anti - Semitic genocide?

Dealer - profits from misery they cause.
User - needs help...

Do some of you forum participants actually read the posts properly or just hazard a guess at what they are about based on a quick scan?

[pottery beige]

* add a little bit to my post

there is nothing in the book of life for family dealing with a loved ones addiction

you write it as you go

tough ride for all involved

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

goodluck, those in the midst of a deep drug addiction are extremely resourceful people




unfortunately for friends and family its very much a matter of being there and being supportive for when one has had enough

fortunately if there is a support network there is hope

Sadly "being there and being supportive" is easier said than done. Trying to help an 'ice' user is a very long term project, with very little success of any kind.

I read an article from the US that had a stat of rehabilitation of 'ice' users, the longer they use the less chance of ever getting off the shyte. After a few years the chance of ever getting off was 1%.

Hours after you’ve taken Crystal Meth the receptors in your brain start to turn off the natural production of dopamine. But unlike other stimulants like cocaine that allow the brain cells to re-capture & package dopamine, Crystal Meth does not! Instead the brain receptor cells respond by releasing an enzyme that destroys any extra dopamine. With repeated use over time these enzymes permanently destroy dopamine cells.

Dopamine creates that feeling we get when we're happy, enjoyed a great meal, had fun with friends, etc. Once the brain slows down production of dopamine the need to replace the 'feel good' feeling increases, causing the users addiction.

The biggest problem is that dopamine production never returns to normal levels. Hence the extremely low rates of rehabilitation.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by johnydep

The biggest problem is that dopamine production never returns to normal levels. Hence the extremely low rates of rehabilitation.

The communty need's to be educated strongly about every implication on the use of ice now, kid's & parents might not know the health side effects for instance. On the other hand some people who are at rockbottom may not care, so that raises other questions.

cheer's, Maka

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Sadly "being there and being supportive" is easier said than done. Trying to help an 'ice' user is a very long term project, with very little success of any kind.

Agreed that it's far from easy, but it can be done.

It just takes a LOT of patience, talking, cajoling and usually money .
Having said that, the user must want to quit. If they don't then it's _really_ an uphill battle.

In my case this involved getting the (former) user away from her 'friends', temptation and lifestyle that she had here, and set her up in another town, .

So far, it's working.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

......

In my case this involved getting the (former) user away from her 'friends', temptation and lifestyle that she had here, and set her up in another town, .

So far, it's working.

Done that. It worked, for a while. Moved him, got him off the stuff for over a year, lots of support and talks. Eventually moved back to be closer to family & friends. Had an arranged job so that he was always monitored, was all going good for about 4 months. Then one day left the work site to go to the shops and wasn't seen for two days. Back on the ice.

'Ice' is not like other drugs, where once it's out of system the body heals and becomes normal again. 'Ice' cause brain damage - it stops dopamine production; an integral part to emotional & psychological well being. The user will never have the same type of feelings that makes us all enjoy the small things in life - driving a nice car, a clean house, eating a hamburger, having a quiet beer with mates, watching the footy. All gone.

It's sad and hard to believe, but the facts are there.

Good luck with your friend, I hope she's one of the 1%er's

[Maka]

Ice was found in the car by the police, i feel for the families of these young blokes -

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1227200183481

cheer's, Maka

[buggerlugs]

A customer was telling me yesterday that his 19 year old son has progressed from weed to ice. He said it's taking over his life. He has tried everything to help his son, they used to do everything together. The son got in with a group of bad buggers and the rest is history...... The father is devastated.........

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Done that. It worked, for a while. Moved him, got him off the stuff for over a year, lots of support and talks. Eventually moved back to be closer to family & friends. Had an arranged job so that he was always monitored, was all going good for about 4 months. Then one day left the work site to go to the shops and wasn't seen for two days. Back on the ice.

'Ice' is not like other drugs, where once it's out of system the body heals and becomes normal again. 'Ice' cause brain damage - it stops dopamine production; an integral part to emotional & psychological well being. The user will never have the same type of feelings that makes us all enjoy the small things in life - driving a nice car, a clean house, eating a hamburger, having a quiet beer with mates, watching the footy. All gone.

It's sad and hard to believe, but the facts are there.

Good luck with your friend, I hope she's one of the 1%er's

i've seen really smart, clever people smash the gear and come out un scathed - moved on and got busy with life


i've seen dumbo clowns smash the gear and come out dumbo clowns - dumbo 4 life

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

No worries, lets just burn them all like Hitler did to the Jews, problem solved right? Because drug users aren't human beings like the rest of us, they aren't worth any effort.

Invoking Godwin's law 9 pages into discussion.

Regardless of addiction they are still living and breathing human beings and maybe we lend a helping hand rather than stomping on their heads while they lay in the gutter.

Seems like when you hit rock bottom there isn't a shortage of people willing to sink the boot in while you're down, and that applies to everything in life, not just drug addiction.

The USA already knows it has a problem with its MASSIVE prison population, and its come to a point where its not economical to house more prisoners or build new prisons.



https://news.vice.com/article/the-ma...lem-in-america

People seem to forget about rehabilitation, everyone just wants punishment, punishment, punishment.

I think it all comes down to one main thing, people support drugs like this and people are stupid enough to take them.
So there has to be something done to stop it, I am all for kicking them out of QLD and that's anyone that has anything to do with supporting crap like this, and people have got to understand that it's just not on at all regard less and maybe then some may take notice !
I am all for licencing drugs, that way the tax man gets his cut and the drugo is kept an eye on and the criminal gangs are sorted out and most of the idiots are sorted out.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

A customer was telling me yesterday that his 19 year old son has progressed from weed to ice. He said it's taking over his life. He has tried everything to help his son, they used to do everything together. The son got in with a group of bad buggers and the rest is history...... The father is devastated.........

The reason that happens is because drug dealers are salesmen and just like any other salesman you push the product with the biggest profit margin.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

i've seen really smart, clever people smash the gear and come out un scathed - moved on and got busy with life


i've seen dumbo clowns smash the gear and come out dumbo clowns - dumbo 4 life

The hospitals and the police have a different story to tell.

The 'gear' makes you a 'dumbo'. A persons intelligence has nothing to do with whether they become addicted, it's all down to the permanent chemical change to the brain that every 'ice' user goes through.

Yes some people come out the other side and lead a normal life, but the percentage rate is miniscule. And there's no studies, yet, to tell us about the side affects ex-users will have when they get into their 50's & 60's. anecdotal evidence suggest high rates of alzheimers, studies are currently in progress.

Everyone that has even one try of 'ice' is a "dumbo". Please don't trivialise the danger of this insidious drug, the facts and evidence show how destructive it is to individuals, family & society.

[goo33]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

A customer was telling me yesterday that his 19 year old son has progressed from weed to ice. He said it's taking over his life. He has tried everything to help his son... The father is devastated.........

What to do:

http://www.methaction.org/what_do_you_do

"One important piece of advice is to get a paper trail going. Document everything so you can present it to authorities."

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by castellan

I am all for kicking them out of QLD and that's anyone that has anything to do with supporting crap like this are sorted

Good, rest of Australia will take the druggies & we will shut the borders of QLD to keep your kind separated from us.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by trublu

Good, rest of Australia will take the druggies & we will shut the borders of QLD to keep your kind separated from us.

I am happy with that.

Taking Drugs like that is no excuse at all in my book at all regardless.
Where does it all end ? we have community's that the cops don't go to nowadays and leave crime to do it's thing, I could not care less, the Law is the Law and if people want to disregard it, there is no excuse at all.
The Law has limits but when it comes to it some things, like that are just a bit more that the Law should allow.

It should be, if some dirt bag comes up to me wanting to sell such rubbish as Ice, I should do my duty and punch that dudes head in directly on the spot and if I see anyone dealing it, I demand action against such people directly.
Low life would be more fear full to sell to our children if they hanged the bastards.

But wimps like you lot push and support, love only to create hell for everyone and it's weeds like so that would be upset at me bashing some good for nothing and want me in Jail for bashing such a moron that has no regard for your children's lives at all.

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by castellan

I am happy with that.

Taking Drugs like that is no excuse at all in my book at all regardless.
Where does it all end ? we have community's that the cops don't go to nowadays and leave crime to do it's thing, I could not care less, the Law is the Law and if people want to disregard it, there is no excuse at all.
The Law has limits but when it comes to it some things, like that are just a bit more that the Law should allow.

It should be, if some dirt bag comes up to me wanting to sell such rubbish as Ice, I should do my duty and punch that dudes head in directly on the spot and if I see anyone dealing it, I demand action against such people directly.
Low life would be more fear full to sell to our children if they hanged the bastards.

But wimps like you lot push and support, love only to create hell for everyone and it's weeds like so that would be upset at me bashing some good for nothing and want me in Jail for bashing such a moron that has no regard for your children's lives at all.

It seems to me you don't want to separate the sellers from the users.

[MITCHAY]

Whatever happened to just having a night on the **** with your mates to forget about your problems. At worst you have a hangover, maybe had a good night.

Why exactly do people hit this crap up, considering the effects are commonly known these days?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by johnydep

The hospitals and the police have a different story to tell.

The 'gear' makes you a 'dumbo'. A persons intelligence has nothing to do with whether they become addicted, it's all down to the permanent chemical change to the brain that every 'ice' user goes through.

Yes some people come out the other side and lead a normal life, but the percentage rate is miniscule. And there's no studies, yet, to tell us about the side affects ex-users will have when they get into their 50's & 60's. anecdotal evidence suggest high rates of alzheimers, studies are currently in progress.

Everyone that has even one try of 'ice' is a "dumbo". Please don't trivialise the danger of this insidious drug, the facts and evidence show how destructive it is to individuals, family & society.

i want the acid the Beatles had no bs would really rock

[Maka]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

It seems to me you don't want to separate the sellers from the users.

While most users don't turn to crime to fund their habit, there are those who do & its those who are wreaking destruction on the community.

The victims of these people all agree that the powers that are need to man up & take very strong measures against this very serious problem before things get really bad in the community. I dont want to hear gunshots every night before bed time like what's happening in some suburbs now in my state.

cheer's, Maka

[XBROO]

Here I go again, take the money out of it. Take the money out of it and you'll get rid of dealers/pushers. We have to stop further people getting hooked and help/support the current users. When I said previously about giving it out for free, it would have to be a well manage program with the end result to ween user off. So of coarse there would have to be some form of registration, so we can't get a clean person hooked. But we need to take the money away, then you'll get rid of the dealers/pushers. Money=Power so I'll leave with this quote I saw on a bumper sticker the other day.

If the power of love was greater then the love of power, then and only then will we have peace.

[pottery beige]

happy rats in happy rat surroundings is the best defence

*bump for this

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sc...-1227196380184

[XBROO]

PB that study is an awesome read and I'm sure it will hit home to anyone that reads it.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by XBROO

PB that study is an awesome read and I'm sure it will hit home to anyone that reads it.

I'm not sure where i sit in this thread

Have liased with pre release dudes and taken family straight from gaol

loold heartily @ family members and wtf's (they are druggies and will steal yo house)

sadly they didnt buy swap or steal ma house for gear

sickness / illness / people yo love are still there

no bs

[superyob]

Originally Posted by castellan

I am happy with that.

Taking Drugs like that is no excuse at all in my book at all regardless.
Where does it all end ? we have community's that the cops don't go to nowadays and leave crime to do it's thing, I could not care less, the Law is the Law and if people want to disregard it, there is no excuse at all.
The Law has limits but when it comes to it some things, like that are just a bit more that the Law should allow.

It should be, if some dirt bag comes up to me wanting to sell such rubbish as Ice, I should do my duty and punch that dudes head in directly on the spot and if I see anyone dealing it, I demand action against such people directly.
Low life would be more fear full to sell to our children if they hanged the bastards.

But wimps like you lot push and support, love only to create hell for everyone and it's weeds like so that would be upset at me bashing some good for nothing and want me in Jail for bashing such a moron that has no regard for your children's lives at all.

I think I agree with you (about dealers) if my deciphering skills have been accurate. You are very hard to understand at times Castellan...

[pottery beige]

*thanks for bumping that post i dont usually read them

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by castellan

I am happy with that.

Taking Drugs like that is no excuse at all in my book at all regardless.
Where does it all end ? we have community's that the cops don't go to nowadays and leave crime to do it's thing, I could not care less, the Law is the Law and if people want to disregard it, there is no excuse at all.
The Law has limits but when it comes to it some things, like that are just a bit more that the Law should allow.

It should be, if some dirt bag comes up to me wanting to sell such rubbish as Ice, I should do my duty and punch that dudes head in directly on the spot and if I see anyone dealing it, I demand action against such people directly.
Low life would be more fear full to sell to our children if they hanged the bastards.

But wimps like you lot push and support, love only to create hell for everyone and it's weeds like so that would be upset at me bashing some good for nothing and want me in Jail for bashing such a moron that has no regard for your children's lives at all.

$10 you couldnt beat the lid off a pie

not a world for the make believe

[superyob]

Originally Posted by XBROO

If the power of love was greater then the love of power, then and only then will we have peace.

Fairy dust and fluffy kittens don't work in a world where hate and greed are the dominant realities. It is these realities we must face head on, with no mercy given to the wreckers of society.

While I do agree to some extent with the saying, it is an imperfect and flawed ideal that can be interpreted from many angles, and that is why in all of human existence it has never become reality...

[superyob]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

$10 you couldnt beat the lid off a pie

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

happy rats in happy rat surroundings is the best defence

*bump for this

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sc...-1227196380184

The movie of his book is coming out next year http://www.chasingthescream.com/

I learned it from an extraordinary mixture of people I met on my travels. From the surviving friends of Billie Holiday, who helped me to learn how the founder of the war on drugs stalked and helped to kill her. From a Jewish doctor who was smuggled out of the Budapest ghetto as a baby, only to unlock the secrets of addiction as a grown man. From a transsexual crack dealer in Brooklyn who was conceived when his mother, a crack-addict, was raped by his father, an NYPD officer. From a man who was kept at the bottom of a well for two years by a torturing dictatorship, only to emerge to be elected President of Uruguay and to begin the last days of the war on drugs.

The guy is a disgraced reporter, the article only touches on some drugs and its aim is to sell his book. He tries to link hospital medical drugs to his theory, by saying "..it's the drugs that cause it; they make your body need them -- then it's obvious what should happen. Loads of people should leave the hospital and try to score smack on the streets to meet their habit. But here's the strange thing: It virtually never happens..."

Firstly, some people do become addicted to medical drugs, though it is rarer than street drug addictions. Secondly, hospital medication is used under controlled conditions. Thirdly - how many hospitals give out 'medicinal' methamphetamine, a glass pipe and a needle?

Even a radical mate had issues with him Is the dream over Russell Brand and Johann Hari go their separate ways.

Maybe the first step to the current drug epidemic is to stop defending the drugs. Use them if you want to take the chance, but don't go around praising them.