First experience .. Vic law regarding passing emergency vehicle

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Not yet, they will have to finish their investigation.
These 4 charges are just to hold him in custody so they can complete the investigation.
He would have also had blood sample taken in hospital at the time, common practice, with or without consent.
He's only just been released from hospital, unable to do an interview there, so now he's out they can finish questioning him.
Will be a few days if not weeks yet before it's all tied up in a bow for DPP.

What's the ethics around charging someone just to keep them in custody until they can complete their investigation?

He's essentially in prison for 2 months or so until his court date correct?

How does this work?

[ljf12]

The recommended safe following distance for cars is two to three seconds, are there any recommended distances for trucks etc dependent on weight etc ?

No better feeling than driving down the freeway stuck in a lane while looking at the nostril hairs of a semi driver in your rear view mirror.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ljf12

The recommended safe following distance for cars is two to three seconds, are there any recommended distances for trucks etc dependent on weight etc ?

No better feeling than driving down the freeway stuck in a lane while looking at the nostril hairs of a semi driver in your rear view mirror.

It doesn't matter what their safe distance is because someone will always duck in front of them anyway

Imagine if trucks had this laser thing that cast an big red rectangle in front of it for the safe distance to jump in front of them - red rectangle - you can't be here.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Imagine if trucks had this laser thing that cast an big red rectangle in front of it for the safe distance to jump in front of them - red rectangle - you can't be here.

Preferably connected to a large laser canon

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What's the ethics around charging someone just to keep them in custody until they can complete their investigation?

He's essentially in prison for 2 months or so until his court date correct?

How does this work?

Why do you care so much, got to be bigger issues out there?

Cops will probably drag out as much as they can as they cant do much with him. But you could argue if he hadnt made the choices he did then we all wouldn't be so engaged on a random forum.

I think we are giving the DH way to much air time.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

It doesn't matter what their safe distance is because someone will always duck in front of them anyway

A strawman argument.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by ljf12

The recommended safe following distance for cars is two to three seconds, are there any recommended distances for trucks etc dependent on weight etc ?

No better feeling than driving down the freeway stuck in a lane while looking at the nostril hairs of a semi driver in your rear view mirror.

Unfortunately when you drive a truck it does not matter how much distance you are from someone, as said in a previous post there is always a moron that will squeeze in, indicate then brake for a corner, or just to be in front at the next set of lights, when you first start driving you swear a lot and get wound up, but after a while you learn to anticipate the next moron that will try something to shorten their own life

When going for my semi licence I asked about emergency stops, my instructor just looked at me and said unfortunately if someone is stupid enough to do something stupid in front of you, just save yourself, he was serious.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Why do you care so much, got to be bigger issues out there?

Cops will probably drag out as much as they can as they cant do much with him. But you could argue if he hadnt made the choices he did then we all wouldn't be so engaged on a random forum.

I think we are giving the DH way to much air time.

Possibly so but we live in a country where there is supposed to be a presumption of innocence until guilt is proven and given the grab-bag of charges laid against Mr Pusey, I'd be fairly sure that if they had more, there'd be more.

The charges that have been laid are the most severe that can be laid in Victoria for a traffic accident related death but the charge will have to state which of the four elements it relies on. These are:

Driving recklessly. The driver deliberately (and without any good reason) ignores a substantial risk that another person may die as result of their driving.

Driving negligently. Where a driver fails majorly (and without any good reason) to take enough care to avoid the death.

Driving under the influence of alcohol to such an extent that proper control of the vehicle cannot be maintained.

Driving while under the influence of drugs to such an extent that proper control of the vehicle cannot be maintained.

I've not seen which of the four has been nominated in the charges as yet.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Why do you care so much, got to be bigger issues out there?

Cops will probably drag out as much as they can as they cant do much with him. But you could argue if he hadnt made the choices he did then we all wouldn't be so engaged on a random forum.

I think we are giving the DH way to much air time.

What concerns me, and I’m sure many others, is that a tragic situation like this has never happened in Victoria before.
The legal precedent set by the outcome of the court cases will have dramatic and far reaching implications for many industries. It is not uncommon for state governments to implement “knee Jerk” reactions in times where they must me seen to be doing something.

The law of unintended consequences, some good, others not so will be a reality here.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

What concerns me, and I’m sure many others, is that a tragic situation like this has never happened in Victoria before.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...08-gvzxo7.html

this is the incident that sparked the 40kph laws

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Why do you care so much, got to be bigger issues out there?

Cops will probably drag out as much as they can as they cant do much with him. But you could argue if he hadnt made the choices he did then we all wouldn't be so engaged on a random forum.

I think we are giving the DH way to much air time.

How dare I want us to maintain the principles of our democracy regardless of who is under the microscope

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by ljf12

The recommended safe following distance for cars is two to three seconds, are there any recommended distances for trucks etc dependent on weight etc ?

No better feeling than driving down the freeway stuck in a lane while looking at the nostril hairs of a semi driver in your rear view mirror.

the law for all vehicles at any speed (up to the limit) is 60 metres. It used to be 100 metres for multi-combination vehicles in Victoria but was changed when we went to National Road Rules in 1999

60 metres is too close at 100km/h for any vehicles, it doesn't allow for reaction time and then stopping distance

Police rarely enforce this law as it is too hard to police, certainly in metropolitan areas, particularly in peak times

The 'seconds' count never featured in law

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...08-gvzxo7.html

this is the incident that sparked the 40kph laws

and this:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/t...27-ge01vt.html

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

What concerns me, and I’m sure many others, is that a tragic situation like this has never happened in Victoria before.

yes it has, see my post above

His name was Rennie Page from Benalla

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What's the ethics around charging someone just to keep them in custody until they can complete their investigation?

He's essentially in prison for 2 months or so until his court date correct?

How does this work?

from memory, he didn't apply for bail - he could have

Truthfully, he is probably safer in a cell in Melbourne's Remand Centre than out in the public

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What's the ethics around charging someone just to keep them in custody until they can complete their investigation?

He's essentially in prison for 2 months or so until his court date correct?

How does this work?

The ethics are very simple, once police have enough reason / justification to charge someone for a offence they must, in this case, re culpable driving x 4 charge him, present him before a magistrate where they can either oppose or support bail, which the magistrate decides on, now this is where it gets tricky,
Option 1, remand him in custody until either he applies for bail or awaits further court date in which all time served on remand is then counted towards any final sentence imposed thus reduces the amount of remaining time to be served or if acquitted (which in about 95% of times they are not) just cops that time on the chin.
Option 2, police don't oppose bail and it's granted, be out in the community and have to serve the full sentence if he gets 1, or using Pusey as a example, be out on bail, risk that he will not continue to re-offend and in the worst case scenario, he re offends gets back into a vehicle and before his trial has another accident (insert any other tragic event) and as a result another member of the public is seriously injured or killed then have the community ask which clowns in the police or courts let him go,

[whitelion65]

The law, and ethics are two quite different animals.

[Franco Cozzo]

I took this photo about 15 mins ago, one would think you would heavily reconsider this action after last week?

[FPV414]

Originally Posted by M&Ms

Honestly, the Premier and state government have blood on their hands now. The Porsche driver is being made out to be the cause here, yet not the hwy patrol that was seated on the grass, probably gunned it to 200 to catch the Porsche, says yay an impound before I go home, calls backup, and gets wiped out in the process by creating a hazard while trying to prevent a hazard that's arguably not that big of a hazard.

Ironically, if the copper pulled the Porsche over, gave him a reduced ticket and let him no his way, rather than camp out on the side of a Motorway for 30 minutes where the evening sun was setting so they could be a bigshot, All 4 would be enjoying dinner with their families tonight. RIP to the dead, unfortunately this was going to happen sooner or later with current laws, overzealous policing, and paranoid and incompetent drivers on the road. I feel worst for the truckie here, his life will never be the same again.

Shoulda closed the thread after this comment.. I won't take anything away from the fact this is an awful and distressing set of circumstances though. RIP.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

yes it has, see my post above

His name was Rennie Page from Benalla

I didn't recall that one, 15 years ago by the look, not much info about the investigation or charges etc

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Interesting that's There's NO Drug Charges..!!

They took a blood sample from him when he got to the hospital. So assuming it might take a few days to get the results back?

It's not a near instant answer like a road side drug test swab.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

yes it has, see my post above

His name was Rennie Page from Benalla

I do remember this and it is my recollection that he was standing beside the vehicle at the time either on or extremely close to the fog line.

Just to clarify my comment, there’s never been four police members killed in any one incident before.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

image

I took this photo about 15 mins ago, one would think you would heavily reconsider this action after last week?

I seriously hope you weren't driving when you took that

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I didn't recall that one, 15 years ago by the look, not much info about the investigation or charges etc

Young bloke, distracted or stunned (in daylight) by the flashing lights - pretty local to me which is why I remember it

[randel]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

image

I took this photo about 15 mins ago, one would think you would heavily reconsider this action after last week?

I hope that red car has broken down and the cops are there for assistance...

Were the lights flashing - cant see apart from the hazards?

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by randel

I hope that red car has broken down and the cops are there for assistance...

Were the lights flashing - cant see apart from the hazards?

Only my opinion here but it looks like the car may have broken down and HWP is blocking the lane to ease the traffic flow until a tow truck arrives.
The “angry lights” must be on during an intercept while on the roadway itself so it doesn’t actually look like an intercept. A smart move here by the HWP.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Just to clarify my comment, there’s never been four police members killed in any one incident before.

Unfortunately there has albeit in completely different circumstances. Australia Day, 26 January 2001. Four Police officers from Newman, WA, died in a plane crash.

The Bloody Slow Cup was created in their memory.

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/About-U...loody-Slow-Cup

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Unfortunately there has albeit in completely different circumstances. Australia Day, 26 January 2001. Four Police officers from Newman, WA, died in a plane crash.

Sorry mate, my bad as I was referring to Victorian police. I was unaware of this plane crash.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I seriously hope you weren't driving when you took that

I'm sitting in the passenger seat, look at how close the passenger side mirror is in the photo, my arm isn't that long to grab a photo like that from the drivers seat

The beacons were on its just a very well timed photo that got it between it's flash pattern.

When there's a breakdown the incident response team turns up pretty quickly, it goes up on the overhead boards and they close the two lanes closest to where it's stopped - it was inbound on Tullamarine Freeway near Brunswick road exit.

It could have been a breakdown, maybe they had the beacons on to raise awareness? It'd be a first that I've seen if it was usually it's just the incident response team in their trucks with the orange beacons, I'm not sure but look how close they are to the left lane of the freeway and the van in front of us.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What's the ethics around charging someone just to keep them in custody until they can complete their investigation?

He's essentially in prison for 2 months or so until his court date correct?

How does this work?

I think it is poetic justice given to a smart a s s who thinks they are above the law.