Vfacts March 2024

[whynot]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

A lifted dual cab or 4wd is not going to be as forgiving dynamically, especially when combined with lift kits and the potential to roll over with little provocation. And don't forget about the drum brakes most of the dual cabs come fitted with, combined with heavy weight, they won't have the braking capacity of a Falcon or Commodore.

There was a lot of pontification by Wheels, Modern Motor, ABC Torque, et al during the 1980's about suspension and braking setups. At one time the target was the leaf springs in the XC and XD Falcon, and the snap roll steer in the Watt's linkage rear setup in the XE. Another time it was against the drum brakes, dangerous understeer followed by roll oversteer of the Holden HJ. Then there was a massive push by the motoring journalists towards sedans (e.g. Commodore and Falcon) having independent rear suspension. Journalists also whinged that engines too had to have more power and more refinement.

Yet, here we are four decades later. And the public has clearly voted with their wallets. Leaf spring rears, rear drum brakes (on selected models), high centre-of-gravity, slippery tyres, gutless and clattery diesels. And, as others have pointed out, policing that seems to turn a blind eye to clearly illegal vehicle mods (as long as it is a banged up 4WD). Fortunately, the various electronic systems keep some of dynamics in check.

But ... still ... Peter Wherrett and Bill Tuckey must roll in their graves at times.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by whynot

There was a lot of pontification by Wheels, Modern Motor, ABC Torque, et al during the 1980's about suspension and braking setups. At one time the target was the leaf springs in the XC and XD Falcon, and the snap roll steer in the Watt's linkage rear setup in the XE. Another time it was against the drum brakes, dangerous understeer followed by roll oversteer of the Holden HJ. Then there was a massive push by the motoring journalists towards sedans (e.g. Commodore and Falcon) having independent rear suspension. Journalists also whinged that engines too had to have more power and more refinement.

Yet, here we are four decades later. And the public has clearly voted with their wallets. Leaf spring rears, rear drum brakes (on selected models), high centre-of-gravity, slippery tyres, gutless and clattery diesels. And, as others have pointed out, policing that seems to turn a blind eye to clearly illegal vehicle mods (as long as it is a banged up 4WD). Fortunately, the various electronic systems keep some of dynamics in check.

But ... still ... Peter Wherrett and Bill Tuckey must roll in their graves at times.

I remember the IRS bleating from the 90s, and everybody having a go at the antiquated Falcon's Watts link rear suspension. Drum brakes have not been available on a Falcon sedan/wagon since 1986, and I'm not sure about Commodore but they have definitely had discs all round since 1988.

Not too many cars have IRS these days. Heck even the Ranger only finally, just now, got a Watts link rear. The FWD stuff is mostly all torsion beam (even models that got IRS in the past like the Mazda 3).

Also...a bog standard 4.0i OHC from 1992 or so is more refined than any Thai Special engine on the market, excluding specific performance ones like the Raptor.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

I remember the IRS bleating from the 90s, and everybody having a go at the antiquated Falcon's Watts link rear suspension. Drum brakes have not been available on a Falcon sedan/wagon since 1986, and I'm not sure about Commodore but they have definitely had discs all round since 1988.

Not too many cars have IRS these days. Heck even the Ranger only finally, just now, got a Watts link rear. The FWD stuff is mostly all torsion beam (even models that got IRS in the past like the Mazda 3).

Also...a bog standard 4.0i OHC from 1992 or so is more refined than any Thai Special engine on the market, excluding specific performance ones like the Raptor.

Still trying to compare petrol to diesel ......Thai specials are light years ahead of diesels from 1992 ......

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Still trying to compare petrol to diesel ......Thai specials are light years ahead of diesels from 1992 ......

I'm comparing standard family car engine from 1992 to standard family car engine from 2024.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Still trying to compare petrol to diesel ......Thai specials are light years ahead of diesels from 1992 ......

To be fair, both petrol and diesel engines have come a long, long, way from 1992.

And, in the interests of full disclosure: I too am standing in line for a Thai special (Everest Sport). Still have a 10 month wait.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Still trying to compare petrol to diesel ......Thai specials are light years ahead of diesels from 1992 ......

Diesel from 1992 will probably last forever, a late model one very unlikely.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Diesel from 1992 will probably last forever, a late model one very unlikely.

Yes and probably still getting to its original destination

[Sprintey]

For the 2H the journey was the destination.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Diesel from 1992 will probably last forever, a late model one very unlikely.

You could say the same about everything really, look at household appliances our 2 year old TV broke down a couple of years back ....I asked the technician how long do they last these days , he said about 5 years 🤔

It looks like the screens on its way out now ....so he wasn't far off

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

I remember the IRS bleating from the 90s, and everybody having a go at the antiquated Falcon's Watts link rear suspension. Drum brakes have not been available on a Falcon sedan/wagon since 1986, and I'm not sure about Commodore but they have definitely had discs all round since 1988.

Not too many cars have IRS these days. Heck even the Ranger only finally, just now, got a Watts link rear. The FWD stuff is mostly all torsion beam (even models that got IRS in the past like the Mazda 3).

Also...a bog standard 4.0i OHC from 1992 or so is more refined than any Thai Special engine on the market, excluding specific performance ones like the Raptor.

Great post!

A common theme of the reviewers in the mags back in the day was this constant pursuit of better engineering. And so everything from RTS to ABS to IRS to discs happened. And we ended up with some very good cars, monocoque, 4 wheel discs, ABS, traction controls, increasing amounts of airbags, better crumple zones, more sophisticated suspensions.

In recent years the mechanical spec has gone backwards in volume sellers, the drums/separate chassis/live axles that gave my minesite Hilux 3 star safety (while locally made utes had to be 5 star) has become widespread everywhere. Party like it's 1982 with Watts links! Torsion bar on Mazda 3 zoom zoom...

At the current rate hopefully bench seats and 3 on the tree transmission shifters will return.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Great post!

A common theme of the reviewers in the mags back in the day was this constant pursuit of better engineering. And so everything from RTS to ABS to IRS to discs happened. And we ended up with some very good cars, monocoque, 4 wheel discs, ABS, traction controls, increasing amounts of airbags, better crumple zones, more sophisticated suspensions.

In recent years the mechanical spec has gone backwards in volume sellers, the drums/separate chassis/live axles that gave my minesite Hilux 3 star safety (while locally made utes had to be 5 star) has become widespread everywhere. Party like it's 1982 with Watts links! Torsion bar on Mazda 3 zoom zoom...

At the current rate hopefully bench seats and 3 on the tree transmission shifters will return.

I'd be happy if manuals and 6 cylinder petrols returned at all!

I stand by my statement that a 3 on the tree crossflow XF has more enthusiast appeal than a Hilux

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by whynot

There was a lot of pontification by Wheels, Modern Motor, ABC Torque, et al during the 1980's about suspension and braking setups. At one time the target was the leaf springs in the XC and XD Falcon, and the snap roll steer in the Watt's linkage rear setup in the XE. Another time it was against the drum brakes, dangerous understeer followed by roll oversteer of the Holden HJ. Then there was a massive push by the motoring journalists towards sedans (e.g. Commodore and Falcon) having independent rear suspension. Journalists also whinged that engines too had to have more power and more refinement.

Yet, here we are four decades later. And the public has clearly voted with their wallets. Leaf spring rears, rear drum brakes (on selected models), high centre-of-gravity, slippery tyres, gutless and clattery diesels. And, as others have pointed out, policing that seems to turn a blind eye to clearly illegal vehicle mods (as long as it is a banged up 4WD). Fortunately, the various electronic systems keep some of dynamics in check.

But ... still ... Peter Wherrett and Bill Tuckey must roll in their graves at times.

Excellent post!