How generous are Australian working conditions - Page 5

ILLaViTaR · 12-03-2014, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute83

I'll start with, we are not in a recession, maybe you need to look up the meaning of recession. The rest of your post is just a joke.

Economic crisis then. Being pedantic isn't your get of jail free card to not address the bs you stated in your previous post.

My post is a joke?

cheap · 13-03-2014, 09:26 AM

In summary you see the role of government as providing you with subsidies so that you can go along and do your own thing.

Now imagine if there were millions of other people with a similar attitude, this system would struggle, people working would be slugged with more taxes to pay for the subsidies, they would then demand higher wages, with the higher wages companies are no longer competitive, so the government subsidies industries...

Still the people aren't happy, so the government will give them "free" $900 gift vouchers, "free" home insulation, "free" school building, "free" work as public servants. And to pay for this the government will tax the air that people breath. Sound familiar?

Eventually no matter how much they tax the people, the government would have to borrow money to maintain all the subsidies as keeping people happy would mean reelection, once addicted to debt the government like a drug junkie has to borrow more and more and more.

But then the government would be faced with the problem of repaying the massive debt. That is someone elses problem - right?

Ever stop to think what a socialist government and all those tiny little subsidies mean for all of Australia?

Franco Cozzo · 13-03-2014, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Ever stop to think what a socialist government and all those tiny little subsidies mean for all of Australia?

Means Australia is the lucky country, if you have a problem with looking after other people go live in the USA so you can pay your lower taxes.

ratter · 13-03-2014, 10:43 AM

too many lazy people living off the hand out, not interested in getting jobs, some body has to pay for these people, the working person keeps getting taxed to cover them, workers need more money, the business has to put up their prices, never ending circle.

Our country has not just started it's current course from the government change over!

ute83 · 13-03-2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Economic crisis then. Being pedantic isn't your get of jail free card to not address the bs you stated in your previous post.

Maybe you need to look up outside of your own world.

You can't be serious.

cheap · 13-03-2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Means Australia is the lucky country, if you have a problem with looking after other people go live in the USA so you can pay your lower taxes.

Bizarre rhetoric, then again I'm not surprised. If you don't mind me asking, how many layers of cotton wool does the society currently provide you?

Franco Cozzo · 13-03-2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Bizarre rhetoric, then again I'm not surprised. If you don't mind me asking, how many layers of cotton wool does the society currently provide you?

**** all actually, cause I have a bit of savings and they didnt subsidise my Diploma or Cert IV.

jpblue1000 · 13-03-2014, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Bizarre rhetoric, then again I'm not surprised. If you don't mind me asking, how many layers of cotton wool does the society currently provide you?

If we are opening up, how about you cheap? whats your story!

JP

BHDOGS · 13-03-2014, 04:25 PM

Ah politics the never ending cycle of its not my fault its yours the never ending war of haves and have nots the rich subsidizing the poor if only people realised labour and liberal are basically the same party they have some small differences and both **** you either way just depends how much money you got to how much each party ****s you if your rich the labour takes your money it make you very sad no money for bmw if you poor liberal take your money no money for food. I know which side id rather be on

cheap · 13-03-2014, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

If we are opening up, how about you cheap? whats your story!

JP

What do you want to know and why?

cheap · 13-03-2014, 05:06 PM

I don't think anyone should question the generosity of Australians, however the incompetence of the previous government is clearly beyond question.

The newest scandal involves the $4.5 billion National Rental Affordability Scheme, this would by all accounts be a scam filed pile of puss, with dodgy developers on-selling their rights under the scheme and universities happy to see the taxpayer subsidise their efforts to recruit more fee-paying international students.

And people wonder why we're broke and paying tax upon tax?

steve.zissou · 13-03-2014, 05:24 PM

i spend alot of time in the US - I love it but I wouldnt work there.

At least we get stuff for our debt and incompetent govt. Over there, they are in worse financial shape and get no health care, crap wages, crap conditions, no security. I know guys in good high paying jobs that get told to cancel their holidays (only 2 weeks a year) just befor they are about to leave. no refund, no nothing, if you dont like it leave.

That being said, our bigest problem here is entitlement. Whether that is for free stuff from the govt or entitlement to a job no mater how bad you do it.

I now refuse to hire anyone at minimum wage. I'll hire some one that works hard and pay them extra or hire no one at all - I am constantly looking for staff. I know about 20 positions that have been vacant for over a year but the employer hasnt been able to find some one that will do the work - crap staff are worse than no staff and there is a lot of crap out there.

Long term i can see us going down the Greek road - massive govt bureaucracy but no businesses left to actual pay tax.

my 2 step solution.:
1) nothing free from the govt - you must always contribute something. Doctors visit shouldn't be free for any one, you should at least have to pay something - even $5 for pensioners. If its free it has no value to the person receiving it.
2) govt employees and politicians should have their pay indexed to the average Australian private sector wage. If we the tax payers arnt doing well, then they shouldn't either. If they want a pay rise, they should focus on helping us earn more

jpblue1000 · 13-03-2014, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

What do you want to know and why?

I dont know, A bit about you, your name?, what motivates you, what makes you get out of bed in the morning, what you do for a crust and maybe your social security number

.
It's always nice to know who you debate with cause based on many of your posts Im guessing your a Liberal party troll sent to 'convince' us we are all wrong?

Justin

Maka · 13-03-2014, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I dont know, A bit about you, your name?, what motivates you, what makes you get out of bed in the morning, what you do for a crust and maybe your social security number

.
It's always nice to know who you debate with cause based on many of your posts Im guessing your a Liberal party troll sent to 'convince' us we are all wrong?

Justin

Im tossing up, cheap's either G.Brandis or E.Abetz

Only joking cheap, those two blokes go well for the LNP!

cheers, Maka

cheap · 13-03-2014, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I dont know, A bit about you, your name?, what motivates you, what makes you get out of bed in the morning, what you do for a crust and maybe your social security number

.
It's always nice to know who you debate with cause based on many of your posts Im guessing your a Liberal party troll sent to 'convince' us we are all wrong?

Justin

Balance is what motivates me, healthy skeptical debate particularly against groupthink.

As for political views, conservative in nature, I have been around a longtime and there are many train wrecks of failed government policies from both sides - each party trying to spend more of our tax money outdoing the previous miserable blunder. Having said that, IMO the ALP is many leaps and bounds ahead of the Liberals as far as incompetent government is concerned (there really is no comparison).

Not a member of any party because it would become a conflict in the line of work I do, but I have a few friends who are card carry Liberal's and occasionally get invited to their functions where I have met politicians, captains of business and some extremely wealthy Australians. Broad range of people who have very different views from the stereotype the ALP would portray. FWIW, thirty years ago I was invited to an ALP branch meeting and I think they tried to recruit me, that's the only plausible explanation I have for getting lucky that night, they never had a chance but at least I had fun.

vztrt · 13-03-2014, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Might upset a few here but HR is a whole level of staff in most places now . Where a few years ago the boss did it with some help of maybe one person in the organisation !! They get way more pay in most cases than the qualified people doing the work !!

Yeah. They're useless....like plenty of middle management in companies.

**cs123** · 13-03-2014, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

i spend alot of time in the US - I love it but I wouldnt work there.

At least we get stuff for our debt and incompetent govt. Over there, they are in worse financial shape and get no health care, crap wages, crap conditions, no security. I know guys in good high paying jobs that get told to cancel their holidays (only 2 weeks a year) just befor they are about to leave. no refund, no nothing, if you dont like it leave.

That being said, our bigest problem here is entitlement. Whether that is for free stuff from the govt or entitlement to a job no mater how bad you do it.

I now refuse to hire anyone at minimum wage. I'll hire some one that works hard and pay them extra or hire no one at all - I am constantly looking for staff. I know about 20 positions that have been vacant for over a year but the employer hasnt been able to find some one that will do the work - crap staff are worse than no staff and there is a lot of crap out there.

Long term i can see us going down the Greek road - massive govt bureaucracy but no businesses left to actual pay tax.

my 2 step solution.:
1) nothing free from the govt - you must always contribute something. Doctors visit shouldn't be free for any one, you should at least have to pay something - even $5 for pensioners. If its free it has no value to the person receiving it.
2) govt employees and politicians should have their pay indexed to the average Australian private sector wage. If we the tax payers arnt doing well, then they shouldn't either. If they want a pay rise, they should focus on helping us earn more

Good post there Steve.

nstg8a · 13-03-2014, 11:33 PM

Just put everyone in the same boat as us kiwis, pay full taxes but aren't eligible for anything....
Win win, revenue rises, welfare costs drop like a stone.

Might need to invest in a few extra cops though.

**GasoLane** · 14-03-2014, 09:49 PM

Now we've all had a good whinge about both sides of politics could we please get back on topic?

castellan · 15-03-2014, 11:41 AM

I think some workers in aus have got it realy good and some have had it as total rubbish and that's looking at it from the 70's to now.

When i left school i got payed bugger all because of my age but in the job i was doing i got payed by the hour, now one old dude was doing say 1m to my 12 m but he got payed 17 times as much ?
So i said to a boss about it and just copped a mouth full because i dare say and they were furious beyond comprehension and the boss said, you don't even make what you earn, but this is not true at all because if they had to do my job they would not get as many m2 done anyway.

I should of went on the dole i would of got more respect from everyone i came across.

And if i got payed by the m2 i would of made good money.
If only i worked in a union site i could of got paid well and did bugger all just like all my mates did.
But you know i have worked for my self now for over 20 plus years in the same industry and know i made them big money i could of did one hours work and made my keep for the day easy. that's what the lowlife criminals bastards did to me.

So i see australia going down the same path with people now trying to exploit everyone they can.
Sure the unions are and were way out of line a lot of the time but when you have idiots just exploiting others, you end up with the other partys only get stronger down the track and they will never vote for the party that trys to screw them over again regardless and that's why so many do as they do as they have no intrest at all but they are true believers and will just go down with the ship end of story. i have seen it time and time again.

It comes down to sinfull people who cause all the problems in this world and the fools just disregard that.