Interesting...possible black boxes for Yanks 2014

[2011G6E]

A friend sent me a link to this news item from the USA...
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obam...s-beginning-14

Bypassing Congress, the Obama administration has issued a proposed administrative rule, which if adopted, would mandate the installation of "black boxes" in all automobiles and light trucks beginning in 2014.

The U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) proposed the regulation on Dec. 7, which it said “would capture valuable safety-related data in the seconds before and during a motor vehicle crash.”

The proposed standard would require automakers to install event data recorders (EDRs) – so-called “black box devices” -- to collect specific safety related data in all light passenger vehicles beginning Sept. 1, 2014.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said approximately 96 percent of model year 2013 passenger cars and light-duty vehicles are already equipped with black-box capability.

“By understanding how drivers respond in a crash and whether key safety systems operate properly, NHTSA and automakers can make our vehicles and our roadways even safer,” LaHood said in a news release. “This proposal will give us the critical insight and information we need to save more lives.”

One interesting thing I noticed is the claim that they don't collect any information on-the-go or record anything while the person is driving around, but that they operate like this: "After a crash or air bag deploys, the EDR would collects data in the seconds before and during a crash, including: vehicle speed; whether the brake was activated in the moments before a crash; crash forces at the moment of impact; information about the state of the engine throttle; air bag deployment timing and air bag readiness prior to the crash and whether the vehicle occupant’s seat belt was buckled.".

Umm...if all they are there to do is to give interesting information on what led up to a crash, then how come they only supposedly activate after "a crash or the airbag deploys"...? Isn't that too late to record anything useful? The crash has already happened at that point. That's closing the door after the horse has bolted...it's like a flight data recorder in an airliner only turning on after the plane has hit the ground.
They would simply have to record continuously so that they do indeed "know what happened leading up to an accident".


Or am I being cynical...

[Peter B - CV8]

I thought the technology was already there - via the existing electronic componentry (can access things like speed, braking, pedal inputs etc for the last 15 seconds) ??? I seem to recall a press article only a few weeks ago, in which vehicle insurers wanted to be able to access this data when considering claims.

[Mad_Pom]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

I thought the technology was already there - via the existing electronic componentry (can access things like speed, braking, pedal inputs etc for the last 15 seconds) ??? I seem to recall a press article only a few weeks ago, in which vehicle insurers wanted to be able to access this data when considering claims.

There and here. Check your owners manual for a new car and see the details, where the data can only be recovered with your consent or a court order.

I believe they way it works is that there is a dynamic buffer in non-peremenant memory whihc is continually updated and on the deployment of airbags this data is commited to the permenant memory, where it can then be recovered.

[melon466]

Correct, it would essentially run in a loop overwriting itself until the point the data stopped and it would write what was there when the accident occurred.

[Rodge]

Big Brother is watching you
You are soooo right to be cynical. Soon they will legislate to make the release of this information compulsory to the police whenever its requested by them, even without a court order...you mark my words.

The game's almost up, where did I put that Prius brochure

[Bossxr8]

Ford uses the data as a way of evaluating real world accidents and uses it to make safer cars. Thats what they claim anyway.

[jpd80]

US Authorities have interrogated vehicle computers in the past to confirm data leading up to accidents.
The technology already exists, the government authorities just want easier access to it...

[Aussie.Battler]

I thought the main reason that this will not happen is that under the US constitution you cannot incriminate yourself.


The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution protects witnesses from being forced to incriminate themselves. The privilege against self-incrimination is "[t]he privilege derived from the Fifth Amendment, U.S. Const., and similar provisions in the constitutions of states....[that] requires the government to prove a criminal case against the defendant without the aid of the defendant as a witness against himself...."[2] To "plead the Fifth" is to refuse to answer a question because the response could form self incriminating evidence. Historically, the legal protection against self-incrimination is directly related to the question of torture for extracting information and confessions.

[mik]

next thing you know, the buffer will get bigger and GPS information will be added, you got it in one Rodge, big brother is watching.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Aussie.Battler

I thought the main reason that this will not happen is that under the US constitution you cannot incriminate yourself.


The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution protects witnesses from being forced to incriminate themselves. The privilege against self-incrimination is "[t]he privilege derived from the Fifth Amendment, U.S. Const., and similar provisions in the constitutions of states....[that] requires the government to prove a criminal case against the defendant without the aid of the defendant as a witness against himself...."[2] To "plead the Fifth" is to refuse to answer a question because the response could form self incriminating evidence. Historically, the legal protection against self-incrimination is directly related to the question of torture for extracting information and confessions.

But it isn't you that's incriminating yourself...they're just downloading some information from your wrecked car...it's not their fault what's on the recording...

[Bushbasher]

It won't be long before some monkey can walk up to a bent vehicle and point their scanner at it and wirelessly retrieve all the data instantaneously while you're still sitting on the kerb nursing your airbag headache and before you can scratch yourself you've been ticketed or arrested for some percieved infraction because the data says you didn't hit the brake fast enough or you were going 2kph faster than the monkey decides you should have been and then he gets a kickback from the insurance company who then get to deny your claim because you were deemed to be at fault. Hmmmm...... maybe I'm just too cynical as well, haha.

Bushbasher

[WMD351]

I seem to recall this happening to a Commodore driver (in New Zealand?) not long ago.
Holden were unable to retrieve the info, but authorities had the box sent to GM in the States.
From memory the whole thing got thrown out of court on a technicality though.

[nb_351]

That is why I plan to reregister my zj lol
Not a computer in sight ;)
I guess the technology is a good idea safety wise, as one as its kept in the right hands and used properly and within the law

[WMD351]

Not quite a "full on" black box, but here's the thread I was thinking of.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...lden+black+box