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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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I guess you could see the article as a bit of a Holden add but E85 seems to get a drubbing from a financial point of view.
I would have liked to see LPG put in the mix to compare costs as it seems to be more of a cheaper motoring story. http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...205-1ahgx.html Quote:
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Daniel |
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#2 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 179
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Don't know why Holden are going down this route - the E85 fuel is pretty inefficient and costs more to run - will people use it to help save the planet? Not in my opinion.
A dedicated LPG system is coming later in the year but I'm buggered why they haven't gone down the diesel route for the Commodore (and Falcon) - one would think it they would be ideal for heavy vehicle's like those two. |
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#3 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prasac-ville
Posts: 6,976
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what i heard though im not sure if it's true, someone can correct me if im wrong they do an average on the engine, so if 76 or under is a passing grade. and it scores a 100 on 98RON and a 50 on E85, the average is 75, so officially it passes. |
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: GEELONG
Posts: 7,946
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I agree I think a diesel variant of the falcon would be a big seller
I guess that it is up to ford au so we might not see it ever
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no longer have a ford but a ford man at heart R.I.P 98 EL MAY YOU HAVE A GOOD LIFE IN FALCON HEAVEN [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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#5 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,281
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good old 91 ULP in the tank. More zing than E10 and about the same price... |
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#6 | ||
sucksqueezebangblow
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 748
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e85 needs huge compression or forced induction and tuned to suit to make any real benefits.
and it should still be 99 cents a litre, not the $1.17 i've seen Caltex sell it for - what a joke. still i think Caltex getting the ball rolling by selling it can only be a good thing for the future of performance turbo cars in this country.
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previous:-> 74 KE20 4AGTE, 04 RZN149R, 01 AE112R, 01 KR42R, 84 E30 318i, 67 MINI DELUX, 06 BF XR6T, 08 V50 T5 AWD , MY13 ISUZU D-MAX 4X4 current:-> 16 SS Sportwagon, 19 Everest BiTurbo 4WD |
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#7 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
Petrol has 38.1cpl excise. IMO there should be about 30cpl difference. Quote:
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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#8 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,457
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Quote:
The one benefit of E85 is it isn't made totally from oil. LPG is. |
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#9 | |||
sucksqueezebangblow
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 748
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Quote:
(its kinda like iTunes australia charging $2.19 per track simply because CDs are more expensive here than the USA (official iTunes response to my complaint, nevermind the obvious fact is we pay more for CDs because of shipping costs all the way down under), even though we are now above parity and iTunes USA is $1 per track. ACCC can't do a thing either because its digital downloads) E85 really needs to be much cheaper for the average motorist to get on board. from my excel spreadsheet, 99 cents per litre you could save $440 per year using E85, whereas $1.17 for example would cost you $233 MORE per year to use E85.
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previous:-> 74 KE20 4AGTE, 04 RZN149R, 01 AE112R, 01 KR42R, 84 E30 318i, 67 MINI DELUX, 06 BF XR6T, 08 V50 T5 AWD , MY13 ISUZU D-MAX 4X4 current:-> 16 SS Sportwagon, 19 Everest BiTurbo 4WD |
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#10 | |||
I ♥ EDM
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,141
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Although, thats a moot point from my opinion on this matter. Which is that Ethanols reduced efficiency compared to petrol is made redunant by the fact its renewable. |
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#11 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,041
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Anything to do with electronics is stupidly expensive here for no reason, games for example, dead space 2 is $110 in EB Games, I got it brand new for $53 AUD including shipping from PlayAsia. |
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#12 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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#13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Renewable eh? And how is it made? Lots of electricity involved. And guess what we burn to make electricity......... |
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#14 | |||
I ♥ EDM
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,141
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Quote:
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,985
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stick stuff in it so you cant drink it.....
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#16 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
And where is this geothermal rock place in Australia? Near one of our volcanoes? Along one of our tectonic plate junctions? You may have slightly more credibility as a greeny if you did not own 3 V8s........ According to CSIRO if we were to distill every single crop grown in Australia into ethanol we would still not be able to supply 10% or our fuel needs......... But as with most greeny loony stories, facts only get in the way of the warm and fuzziness....... |
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#17 | |||
I ♥ EDM
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,141
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Settle down flappyboy. I was merely suggesting a form of electricity generation that also supports your renewable argument, I couldve said nuclear but that aint technically renewable. And Greenies can suck the tailpipes of my 3 V8s. If I was wanting to be credible in that respect, I wouldnt dare support the use of Ethanol in the first place. If CSIROs projections were correct, then what Brazil does must be an Act of god. |
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,312
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Quote:
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My ride: 2007 Falcon Ute BF XR8 Orange, MTO. |
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 657
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Interesting read but LPG surely should have been included (even a aftermarket liquid injected kit as falcon/commodores will be running later in the year). No doubt we'll see that when they come out though.
The only real + with E85 long term is it's renewable. But at what cost in producing it? As stated it's not really viable as a 100% fuel replacement, with land needed for food etc. As far as oil dependance go, LPG is the answer, aust exports over 1/2 of its Natural Gas (where LPG is/can be sourced) and apparently has plenty of gas reserves? Environmentaly (per energy) 20% less CO2 than petrol and apparently only 20% of the toxians emited by petrol (so I've read). And at around 50% petrol price or less, using 15% more or so (liquid Inj) it's a noticable cost saver too. Diesel as far as I know is 100% import dependant due to the lightness of aust crude oil or something. While it's efficent to burn L/100km wise is not exactly clean. Really, for Aust. LPG is surely the best solution for both enviroment and costs? |
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#20 | |||
sucksqueezebangblow
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 748
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Quote:
yes, here is my spreadsheet:
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previous:-> 74 KE20 4AGTE, 04 RZN149R, 01 AE112R, 01 KR42R, 84 E30 318i, 67 MINI DELUX, 06 BF XR6T, 08 V50 T5 AWD , MY13 ISUZU D-MAX 4X4 current:-> 16 SS Sportwagon, 19 Everest BiTurbo 4WD |
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#21 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
Quote:
Crude oil prices come into (go out of) australia at what ever prices the buyer and seller want to agree to it (apart with various royalties and excises attatched). Ethanol works in exactly the same way. If the ethanol manufacturer wants to sell it to a distributor for 10 cents a litre, there is nothing stopping them. Their is no link between the costs of making/selling crude oil or making ethanol. The only link between both forms of energy, is that the Feds place various taxes (excises) on the fuels before they are sold to the public. At the moment, the excises are alot more on crude oil products than ethanol (To give the ethanol industry a chance to get started), By the feds have mandated that excises on ethanol will increase over time. |
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#22 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,457
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Quote:
It may come from natural gas fields but it is still a by product of petoleum. You can not make natural gas into LPG. |
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#23 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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If you want a high octane, low calorific-value fuel, go LPG. Simple.
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Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
2006-2016: Regency Red 2000 AUII Ford Falcon Forte Automatic Sedan Tickford LPG "Millennium Falcon" |
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#24 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
__________________
Daniel |
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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The two are different. In order to turn natural gas into a liquid, you need to take it down to minus 162 degrees celcius (obviously you dont see that any in cars or buses these days). LPG doesnt require the freezing bit. Also LPG is denser than air in its natural state, whereas natural gas is lighter than air.
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