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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#121 | |||
7,753
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tasmania..... Moderator: Tas FPV club
Posts: 5,128
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Quote:
Why not
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BREAKING NEWS: The Pity Train has just derailed at the intersection of "Suck It Up & Move On" after it crashed into "We All Have Problems" before coming to a complete stop at "Get the Hell Over It." Reporting LIVE from Quitchur Bitchin' Last edited by HSE2; 17-02-2010 at 01:07 PM. |
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#122 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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#123 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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#124 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,028
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Quote:
I'm mildly interested. What is YOUR opinion of real world testing ???
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Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don't stare at it, it's too risky. You get a glimpse of it then you look away. |
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#125 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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urban driving around some of our larger population centres. Maybe Holden thinks Australia is all flat roads on cruise at 100 kph.... |
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#126 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,948
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Apart from being on a race track how the hell do you manage to use 24L/100km in a Falcon? Ive driven plenty of Falcons in every situation and never got near that.
Maybe in a XD 351 or something
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#127 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
But that was at WOT If the average L/100 is as high as 24/100 then there is something wrong with that car. Or those muppets can't drive.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#128 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 489
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Quote:
![]() In my opinion it's not indicative of real world figures for all people, or the cars they drive. I spent 2 hours today in different levels of traffic. Alot of it was stop starting, with 30-40 minutes stationary, this puts the biggest fuel strain on my FG, and thats not indicative on the bathurst test, (getting out of the car and swapping drivers a few times doesn't really count) 70% of my driving doesn't need the torque I have in my 4.0l at all, as melbourne isn't that hilly, more so where I live. I'm sure if the FG would have beaten the mondeo and a few other cars on that test as well. I said once in a thread, 'wait until the econetic takes the bathurst test to view its -real- economy figure, and one of the mods gave me a bad rating!!!!!!!! You can't have it both ways!! I remember on top gear they showed a BMW m5 was significantly more fuel efficient to a prius under some conditions, and not so much in other conditions. Bathurst test might be indicative for some people, but it certaintly isn't for me or alot of people I know. Thats my opinion, which i'm entitled to. |
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#129 | |||
Fordaholic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 884
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#130 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,551
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i know plenty of people who have an ave km/h of less than 35km/h. anyone who does inner city travel will find they have similar figures. i would be surprised if the cars on the bathurst test averaged less than 45km/h. regardless of the terrain, the slower your ave speed, the worse your mileage will be.
'real world' is different for a lot of people. some think the bathurst test was indicative of 'their' real world, while others, like kezzer, do a lot more stop start driving. anyone who thinks the bathurst test represents peak hour in many of the parking lots we call roads/highways is kidding themselves. |
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#131 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
That test would mean SFA to nearly anyone buying either car....
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#132 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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Quote:
The problem is the 3.0L seems to failing the real world tests. I still haven't seen a 3.0L SIDI excel at a test. 3.6L is what the journos are saying to buy if your gonna get one.
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Daniel |
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#133 | |||
Just slidin'
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 7,791
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Quote:
I managed 48L/100km in my AU for a day on the skidpan, lol. Only traveled maybe 20km over the entire day, so didnt burn much at all really.
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MD Mondeo - For the family
NP Pajero - For the adventure |
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#134 | |||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,701
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#135 | |||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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Problem is that journalists can be quite visceral, therefore viewed with skepticism. |
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#136 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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#137 | ||||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
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Quote:
a: much more like 'real life' than the ADR test is....and b: the 3.0 SIDI is not burning any less than the 4.0I6 and in fact sometimes burns more.... Based on ADR figures the FG would stand to come out worse with heavilly congested slower speed driving..... It has the worse urban figure and by a bigger % margin than its similarly worse highway (extra urban) figure. Therefore, it is plausible that if you did a highway test the FG would go very close to matching the smaller GM donk, and the 3.0 SIDI would do better in a very heavilly congested slow speed driving scenario. BUT, this is all based on the already flawed ADR test which do not translated (very well anyway) to real world results. This is proven by the fact that if anything the 3.0 SIDI is going alot worse than the FG in congested driving (most road tests involve at least 50-60% urban duties) and the only fuel burn test it has won so far (to my knowledge) was a narrow win over a 5sp auto equiped XT....on the open road!!! So much for that theory then.... Ignoring for a moment the upcoming EB 4pot falcon (which will be better suited to round town work) the 4.0 had done well because it has more torque combined with a better auto gearbox (esp when optioned with the zf). Its all about 'right sizing' the drivetrain package to the mass of the car and the type of driving it will do. The 3.0 is not 'right sized', the 3.6 and 4.0I6 are.... Basically it is does not have enough torque and what it has is not made in a useable fashion or properly exploited by the gearbox..... In short, it is 'underengineered' at least, if not totally pointless to begin with. So much for the 'we will outengineer' claim hey Mark Reuss!!!! ![]() Quote:
EDIT: just read the drive story. Seems like the 'theory' may hold....but only just. Either way provides continual proof that the 3.0 engine does not work. Only 0.1L/100km less burn on average on the urban route over the falc. donk. So 101nm less torque (effectively 25% less) and all for 0.1L/100km. Massive Fail Holden.
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... Last edited by Swordsman88; 18-02-2010 at 02:54 AM. |
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#138 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,551
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how is the adr test figures flawed? the figures i've seen for urban and extra urban have been achievable ( around 12L/100 urban and 7.5ish extra urban).
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#139 | |||
7,753
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tasmania..... Moderator: Tas FPV club
Posts: 5,128
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Quote:
Never more so is the stuck in traffic situation people have embraced under the guise of “not representing real world conditions.” It’s not the chore to your car you think it is. Idle economy burns don’t alter that much between manufacturers. Trying to simulate that circumstance is an absolute waste of time. The variables to control in representing real world conditions don’t address the primary fault and that sits behind the wheel. Normally, asking an engine to perform under load at either just under or just over its optimal torque band will produce a number that can be regarded as representative to how that engine will perform under a wide range of conditions. Any test where two products are asked to perform at the same time under the same conditions are said to have an element of control. While it may not fit everyone’s idea of what a real world commute might be it is still indicative of elements of real world driving. Hill driving removes a lot of driver control or influence. You still have to drive the road but that Bathurst Climb removes a large degree of drive influence. Start stop city commute is the opposite. Mass still rules. How you stop that mass and how you get that mass to move is pretty much the end game.
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BREAKING NEWS: The Pity Train has just derailed at the intersection of "Suck It Up & Move On" after it crashed into "We All Have Problems" before coming to a complete stop at "Get the Hell Over It." Reporting LIVE from Quitchur Bitchin' |
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#140 | ||
FORMER T3 OWNER
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,241
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*deleted
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Mischief.TV you can sleep in your car, but you cant drift your house... ![]() Last edited by UNR8D; 18-02-2010 at 11:56 AM. Reason: DOUBLE POST |
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#141 | ||
FORMER T3 OWNER
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,241
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http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...0212-nx8u.html
How they stack up Ford Falcon XT ... From $39,290 plus on-road and dealer costs ($41,690 as tested) ENGINE 4.0-litre, in-line 6-cyl POWER 195kW at 6000rpm TORQUE 391Nm at 3250rpm TRANSMISSION 6-speed automatic, rear-wheel drive WEIGHT 1704kg FUEL CONSUMPTION 9.9L/100km (9.2L/100km on test) CARBON DIOXIDE EMISSIONS 236g/km SAFETY 5-star NCAP crash rating, front and front-side airbags; anti-lock brakes; stability control. Holden Commodore Omega ... From $39,990 plus on-road and dealer costs ($40,985 as tested) ENGINE 3.0-litre, V6 POWER 190kW at 6700rpm TORQUE 290Nm at 2900rpm TRANSMISSION 6-speed automatic, rear-wheel drive WEIGHT 1685kg FUEL CONSUMPTION 9.3L/100km (9.4L/100km on test) CO2 EMISSIONS 221g/km SAFETY 5-star NCAP crash rating, front, front-side and curtain airbags; anti-lock brakes; stability control Toyota Hybrid Camry ... From $36,990 plus on-road and dealer costs ENGINE 2.4-litre petrol 4-cyl, two electric motor generators and battery pack POWER 140kW at 6000rpm (combined) TORQUE 187Nm at 4400rpm TRANSMISSION CVT, front-wheel drive WEIGHT 1645kg FUEL CONSUMPTION 6.0L/100km (6.6L/100km on test) CARBON DIOXIDE (CO2) EMISSIONS 142g/km, SAFETY 4-star NCAP crash rating (forecast), front, front-side and curtain airbags; anti-lock brakes; stability control.
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Mischief.TV you can sleep in your car, but you cant drift your house... ![]() |
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#142 | |||
FORMER T3 OWNER
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,241
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and then there is this....
http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...lcon-xr6-18164 Quote:
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Mischief.TV you can sleep in your car, but you cant drift your house... ![]() |
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#143 | ||||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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Quote:
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It seems there are those who consider the ADR test deceitful when it comes to Holden parading them? The Panorama test is devoid of any cross brand/model comparisons and has no statutory standing. The ADR test on the otherhand is.... well, a "rule". I'd like to see how other models scored on the mountain, including V8's, turbo sixes, Toyota's, etc. and the disparity between the ADR figure. Sales indicate there is more to Australia than Ford and Holden and I can't really understand why the Age deliberately went out to perpetuate a rivalry between two struggling minnows of the automotive industry. Sure it fired up bulletin boards, but 90% of those members probably don't buy new anyway and are stuck in a brand bubble. Harping on and on about how deceptive Holden have been doesn't hold water, when they have an ADR figure to prove the ADR figure they quote is correct. Throwing two vehicles, one with far superior gradeability, on a graded course really is a cynical exercise from the outset. Bogus musings that the downhill runs should level the playing field are nonsensical at best. I personally have very little interest in the Holden six, but it seems real world SIDI feedback is starting to filter through and the comments range between delight and cautious approval/disapproval. There doesn't seem to any savaging by owners, but some are wondering if the 3.6 would have been a better choice over the 3.0. Of course few people like to admit their mistakes. |
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#144 | ||
If it ain't broke........
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sunshine Coast Qld
Posts: 18,596
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Visitors welcome Relatives by appointment only |
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