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#1 | ||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
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TMR Poll Confirms VFACTS Results – Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG
VFACTS RESULTS for July, and a poll conducted over the same month by leading Australian Automotive news site, The Motor Report, confirms that measures to get more Australians into LPG vehicles are failing. In the context of a total national vehicle market down just 10.3 percent in July 2009 compared to July 2008, and down 15.3 percent year-to-date (YTD), sales of new LPG vehicles to private buyers are down 81.8 percent for the month and down 67.2 percent YTD. “July saw just 14 total sales by private buyers of LPG-dedicated passenger vehicles, struggling to a paltry 118 total sales (private buyers, passenger vehicles) for 2009 YTD. This is an astonishingly poor performance,” The Motor Report Director Tim O’Brien said. “Fleet sales, though better are similarly poor, managing 549 sales for the month, down 26.6 percent compared to July 2008. “Given the $2000 Government cash rebate for purchasers of new cars with factory-fitted LPG systems, and given the strong upward movement in the price of petrol, these results are surprising. “More to the point, they indicate the depth of the image-problem for LPG as an alternative fuel. This is a failure by the industry. Motorists are clearly not motivated by price alone in choosing at which bowser they fill their cars up. "As a previous Motor Report poll showed (November 2008), many motorists regard LPG as an inferior alternative fuel,” Mr O’Brien said. In the recent Motor Report poll, when responding to the question: If Unleaded Petrol hits $1.50 a litre, which of the following best describes your likely response,40 percent of poll respondents selected the response that they will make “no change to my car choice nor driving habits”. Only 12.0 percent responded that they “will convert to LPG (or purchase an LPG vehicle)” if unleaded petrol hits $1.50 a litre, while 31 percent responded that their next car will be a diesel. “While Australian motorists are now readily embracing diesel as an alternative to petrol, LPG seems to have simply missed the boat. “For a locally produced fuel that Australia holds in plentiful supply, burns cleaner than petrol, offers such savings at the pump, and with both Ford and Holden offering LPG-dedicated vehicles, the underperformance of this sales segment should be alarming both the industry and the Rudd Government,” Mr O’Brien said. About The Motor Report Poll: Conducted over the month of July, with a total of 972 respondents. If Unleaded Petrol hits $1.50 a litre, which of the following best describes your likely response: * My next car will be a smaller petrol-engined (or hybrid) fuel miser (17.0%) * My next car will be a diesel (31.0%) * I will convert to LPG (or purchase an LPG vehicle) (12.0%) * I will make no change to my car choice nor driving habits (40.0%)
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Trev (FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension) |
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#2 | ||
Has caught the bug...
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Melton, Vic
Posts: 257
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Hmmmm I'm pretty surprised that there is more people willing to go to diesel than convert to LPG, especially with all the developments in the Liquid Injection systems.
Not surprised however that most drivers will stay with petrol. $1.50 really isnt that big of a jump from 1.25-1.37 a litre at the moment |
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#3 | ||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
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The general crapness of all the early LPG systems no doubt has killed it a bit. Also that still most conversions see a lot more LPG used than petrol effectively negating a lot of the price advantage. And of course the fact that there are so many incredibly fuel efficient cars on the market. Personally, I think LPG is on the way out.
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Trev (FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension) |
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#4 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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The public are fools. That's ok, more LPG for me.
The main reason why so many of the public shun LPG are the four main myths: It'll use twice as much LPG as petrol, meaning no savings It'll explode It'll sap my power to a point where i no longer enjoy driving The payback period is almost forever
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Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
2006-2016: Regency Red 2000 AUII Ford Falcon Forte Automatic Sedan Tickford LPG "Millennium Falcon" |
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#5 | ||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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isn't there also a government excise going to put on LPG within a year or two?
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#6 | |||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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Quote:
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Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
2006-2016: Regency Red 2000 AUII Ford Falcon Forte Automatic Sedan Tickford LPG "Millennium Falcon" |
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#7 | ||
SZII in Silhouette
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Darwin NT
Posts: 600
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Hardly see any LPG vehicles here in Darwin (in comparison to other states).
Mind you, with LPG at 95c per litre, i'm not surprised.
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. . Strangers have the best candy....... |
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#8 | ||
Hoon On The Rise
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Open Roads with Boost!
Posts: 9,924
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Or perhaps the case is poeple want cars that aren't available in LPG?
XR6T on LILPG or Coyote GT on LILPG would see me driving one instantly!
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![]() ![]() FGX-XR8 Manual, BFII E-Gas, '11 GSXR 1000 - Love 'em!
FPV Tickford Club of NSW - www.fpvclub.com |
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,028
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The day Ford produce an XR8 and / or XR6T on gas making decent power and torque is the day I will be happy to change to gas as gas is produced here in Australia, it's cheap and it's arguably "greener" than petrol and diesel.
Would never own a diesel and can't understand (actually, yes I can...) why Joe Public is seeing it as the new wonder fuel. The problem with LPG is that there isn't anything appealing about it's outputs (compared to petrol) and the model variants that use it...in my opinion, of course... |
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#10 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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The new generation systems that are available now have put a big dent in the power loss/excess consumption argument. But yes, one of the problems could be the lack of vehicle range from the factory with LPG.
With the new liquid injection system coming out from Ford soon, I wonder if they'll make it available across the Falcon range, or whether it will still be in the fleet hack realms. |
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#11 | |||
Chasing a FORD project!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: adelaide
Posts: 5,114
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One thing that steered me away from LPG is after riding in a cab, how bad the cabin smelled of gas, the horrible sucky wheezy feeling the motor gave out, and just how cheap the car felt. I know it's not the best example, but I also feel gas is a bit of a cop out. Unless it's LI it's not for me. And it smells.
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1996 BMW 740iL V8. TV, phone, leather, sunroof, satnav, all as standard. Now with 19" TSW Brooklands, 2 1/2" stainless steel exhaust, plus more coming soon. |
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#12 | |||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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Quote:
What a stupid comment.
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Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
2006-2016: Regency Red 2000 AUII Ford Falcon Forte Automatic Sedan Tickford LPG "Millennium Falcon" |
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#13 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 87
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#14 | ||
V8 Powaah
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
Posts: 1,994
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Good, I hope they all ignore LPG. All the more for me, and less waiting for the 1 bowser.
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FG G6E Turbo- Seduce & Cashmere - Sold XF S pack Sedan- AU 302 Windsor, T5, 2.77 LSD, Many Mods
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#15 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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I remember back in 06 when petrol started rising. LPG cars build increased a fair bit, at one stage to the point where there was a worry that there wouldn't be enough time to get the tank into the vehicle.
I know one problem with the e-gas is the fact that you lose boot space (same issue with after market conversions), if ford can get the spare wheel to a spot where it doesn't cause issues in the boot, coupled with the L.I system then it should have more people considering it.
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Daniel |
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,296
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Yet another example of how Australian businesses are behind the eight-ball. Like I have said numerous times, to sway the public towards LPG, the manufacturers have to demonstrate that the overall experience of ownership is no different from owning a petrol-only vehicle (e.g. power, economy, reliability, smoothness, practicality). Currently, the only Australian car that comes remotely close to achieving this is the dual fuel Commodore. Conversion centres also do NOTHING to convince 'Joe Public' - there are too many installers who are incompetent or simply DO NOT CARE about the quality of their services. It is these installers that drag the respected installers down to a low level.
The tables WILL turn when Ford release their Liquid Injection E-gas engine. I'm itching to see the final power/torque/consumption figures, as I understand that they are practically on a par with the figures obtainable from the existing petrol engine. Regards, Dave
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PoweredByCNG: Sick and tired of all the ignorant 'gas is crap' comments out there. |
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#17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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LPG has an "anti performance" stigma, you wont overcome that easily or over night.
The installation and upfront costs of the L.I kits are frightening... The savings are significant, on a Falcon averaging 30,000 k's per year mostly city use the costs are about: Petrol @9.5l/100k's @$1.35/l = $3847 PA LPG @16l/100k's @$.045/l = $2160 PA A saving of $1687 per year... i don't particularly want the usual suspects challenging my consumption figures because i know they're accurate because i run a couple of each in a fleet situation. The performance difference between petrol and gas though is significant too...
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() Last edited by 4Vman; 07-08-2009 at 01:37 PM. |
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
Often myths are actually truths that are being denied by agenda..... |
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#19 | ||
1.3 Litre Suzuki power
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Magnetic Mountain, North Western Sydney
Posts: 273
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My mother in law was looking for a car to replace her VL. She is in her 60's not much cash and on a pension.
We found a EF Gli on LPG, with 8 months rego for $2300 as a cheap get around car. We figured as it was on LPG it would be really cheap motoring for her. We checked the car out and it was in clean condition, few shopping trolley dings, minor scratches in the paint but was a good honest car with under 200,000 k's and everything looked good. What do you expect for $2300 a Rolls Royce? Before we went to look at the car, it was it has LPG, it's dangerous, blah, blah, blah. Yep she has NFI. We explained to her that we have a EF on LPG, had no issues with it and it costs sweet bugger all to fill up. Well she complained about it and ended up falling in love with a VP S pack, with HSV wheels, just out of rego for $3500 and she was happy, my wife was ready to kill her. Since then she does not drive her VP very much due to the cost of petrol. I see my wifes face when she rings up and complains about the cost of petrol and being unable to drive down to Sydney to visit people. Still it has it upsides, We dont get visits from her nowdays. So I guess LPG could be deemed as a negitive. Still our EF Fairmont runs like charm, saves me around $50 odd bucks a week in fuel costs, and thats money better off in our pocket and a extra 200 a month off our mortage. ![]() I find it amazing that people whinge about not being able to pay of a mortage, running costs in getting to work because petrol is so expensive and yet they cant look at LPG as a very viable option. I save my money and have extra at the end of each month. So what do I care. I laugh all the way to the bank. If Cabbies are using it and throw 800,000 + k's on a car then something must be ok with it. Maybe it is just Falcon cabs on LPG that can do this :hihi: __________________________________________________ ________________ UPDATES Just to add with comsumption figures These are my own figures, take them as you want. EF Fairmont and I drive it pretty sedate. North Western Sydney - CBD just out of peak times as I am a shift worker. 68 litre petrol - I would get around 530 from a tank with around 8 - 10 odd litres left. Worked out at 11.32 litres per 100 k's. 80 litre LPG - 68 usable litres. 13.8 to 14.2 litres per 100 k's. I filled up last night and I have to do a extra trip up the mountain from the Gym. 423 k's and took 62 litres to fill. this worked out a little higer than normal at 14.66 litres per 100 k's. Still I drive pretty sedate and the EF is not stop light fang machine. 4Vman is also correct there is a different in performance in the older gas ring systems. Still If I want performance I will ride my Blackbird to work. Cheers Mark
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BA series II XR6T in Blaze July 05 build. Stock as a rock EF 4lt 1995 in Green on LPG. To and from work hack. XY Fairmont 1971 in Bronze Wine, 302, Top Loader, 9" Still trying to find out if she is a GS or plain jane Monty. Mustang 1966 coupe, Silver frost, A code, C4, factory bench seat, A/C, P/S rally pac, AM radio with 8 track. Awaiting funds for resto. K6 Hayabusa....Dead Stock and why would one need to spend thousands on mods................. Last edited by Mark s; 07-08-2009 at 01:47 PM. |
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,296
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Quote:
Regards, Dave
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PoweredByCNG: Sick and tired of all the ignorant 'gas is crap' comments out there. |
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#21 | ||
I am Groot
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
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The only reason i have not gone gas is the lack of availability out side most metro areas, get out in the outback and most servos dont carry it, or have run out and waiting on the delivery truck....
The gov needs to start pushing it to be available throughout aust, not just in the population areas, i dont know about most people but i dont spend all my time in suburbia and if i knew i could drive from Bris to Broome, through the centre of Aust, and be able to get it when i needed it, i would convert to gas in a heartbeat, its just to hit and miss at the moment.... Go up to the NW of Aust for a couple of weeks and see how much of this stuff we ship overseas, its mind boggling...
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.. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() "Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe |
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#22 | ||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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all i can say is . thank god people dont like it . that keeps the price down for me .
ohh by the way LPG SUX everyone , dont convert. |
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#23 | |||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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Quote:
__________________
Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
2006-2016: Regency Red 2000 AUII Ford Falcon Forte Automatic Sedan Tickford LPG "Millennium Falcon" |
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#24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,296
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Quote:
The E-gas ADR urban consumption figure is 20.1L/100km. The ADR urban consumption figure for the petrol engine is 14.5L/100km. Regards, Dave
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PoweredByCNG: Sick and tired of all the ignorant 'gas is crap' comments out there. |
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#26 | |||
7,753
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tasmania..... Moderator: Tas FPV club
Posts: 5,128
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Quote:
Thanks Dave
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BREAKING NEWS: The Pity Train has just derailed at the intersection of "Suck It Up & Move On" after it crashed into "We All Have Problems" before coming to a complete stop at "Get the Hell Over It." Reporting LIVE from Quitchur Bitchin' |
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#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,028
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Quote:
Therefore petrol outlets would have more incentive to discount LPG - therefore making it cheaper... |
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#28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Parkdale, Vic
Posts: 1,016
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I've done 60,000 k's in my V6 AWD Verada on LPG, after converting it in Sept 07. It gets the same fuel economy on both LPG & Petrol (which isn't that good - it's a heavy car). I get 400km out of 65 litres of gas. It has enough power. It's not a hot rod. It runs beautifully on the old vapour system and has never backfired once. I do regularly have it tuned and maintained though.
The real difference comes when I'm towing. 22L/100K with LPG & 17L/100K with petrol. Normal driving gives me 12 to 13L/100K out of both petrol & LPG. I can get under 10L/100K on a highway run, which isn't great, but hell, it only costs me $30 per week in fuel to run so who cares. Most people do not purchase cars based on performance so I can't figure out why people are afraid of LPG in most garden variety models. Then again, I live by the credo that 70% of the population are cretins, so I suppose that explains it. Regardless of their horsepower, most cars are just driven to work each day, so a 20% loss on a 300KW car isn't that big a deal, is it? I went to trade the Verada in June, and the dealer told me that a V6 on LPG is not a selling point, in fact its seen as a bad thing on the lot (so he said). I decided to keep it - it's a great car. By the way, the Fed grant is/was only $1000 on new vehicles fitted with LPG. It was $2000 for retro fits to older cars. |
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#29 | |||
Lukeyson
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Lukeyson
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If the human brain was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it. |
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#30 | |||
Lukeyson
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Man, they did land on the moon, how many more people does Buzz Aldrin have to punch out to prove it? ![]() Lukeyson
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If the human brain was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it. |
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