Why no AWD drive XR6T. Why no LPG Territory? - Page 2

Matty4 · 14-07-2009, 07:29 PM

Mine is currently sitting on 16.0l/100 at an average speed of 43km/h.
The Trip Computer hasn't been reset for nearly 60 hours of driving and close enough to 2000k's of urban driving.

GTP-03 · 14-07-2009, 09:37 PM

Ive got a Territory with a sprint gas system, it uses a full tank (67 litres) of gas and we get about 350km in the city, on the highway it can get up to 450kms on a tank, but every time we start it it does run on petrol for the first 2 or so minutes. Id love a turbo SVI AWD 6 speed Territory, I think it would be an awesome car to drive!

4Vman · 14-07-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty4

Pfffttt....where'd you dream that figure up from???
Ours is used mainly around town and it currently sits on 15-16l/100.
Out on the highway it's down into the 12-13l/100 range.
The published combined figure is 14.2l/100 BTW..

Go into a Ford dealer, its stuck on the windscreen......

BFZ Wagon · 14-07-2009, 10:53 PM

My Dad has a 2004 AWD Magna VR-X and it's amazing. I love getting the chance to drive it. It's a shame that it wasn't a big success here as it's such a great car. It has heaps of power & it sticks to the road like glue!
The next thing on his wish list is a supercharger kit for it. I can only imagine how much more fun the car would be with a supercharger in it. But the kits cost @ $8000 :(

AWD in a Falcon would be great. Even in an XR6T. In Japan, they offer AWD in just about every model available. So it's not that hard to do.. It's just not that justifiable cost wise due to factors like our small population and the size of the market here etc.

LPG Territory would be good too. I thought there were LPG tanks out there now that could be moulded to a particular shape for odd spaces? I could be mistaken.

I don't think we'll see an XR6T AWD or LPG Territory but at least they should come up with the diesel Territory.
We'll just have to wait and see.

MITCHAY · 14-07-2009, 11:13 PM

I would seriously consider buying an XR6T with AWD.

I currently own an AWD and it has it's limits of course but you have to push very hard to get there and much more so than a FWD or RWD car.

I'd sacrifice fuel economy for this option most definitely if it came down to that choice!

vztrt · 15-07-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFZ Wagon

LPG Territory would be good too. I thought there were LPG tanks out there now that could be moulded to a particular shape for odd spaces? I could be mistaken.

Not for the Territory, it is truly an odd shaped fuel tank. You can get an aftermarket system but you need to put the spare somewhere else.

One of the dealers I was at today had a terri conversion for 5k + the government subsidy. That is seriously a lot of coin and would take a fair bit of k's to get back the money before you start saving.

distortion · 15-07-2009, 08:42 AM

I know subaru's are engineered for AWD and Falcons arnt... but seriously, if Subaru can have a decent economy AWD sedan, which in turbo form goes very well, why cant Ford? Surely AWD can be engineered into the next all new Falcon.

**Luke Plaizier** · 15-07-2009, 09:47 AM

I think there are some serious engineering limitations.

The front driveshafts pass under the sump in the Territory. Since the engine in the Falcon sits much lower, I can't really see how the front driveshafts could be engineered to pass the engine.

Also, AWD/4WD is there either for dirt road/off road ability, or for traction when you have so much power that two wheels just aren't enough.

So maybe when the Coon gets to 400kW or more (TT Coyote Anyone?) an AWD variant might actually be useful.

But when cars like the latest Lamborghini are now RWD, or the latest Focus RS is stepping back from the previous AWD (From the AWD on the Escort Cosworth) to FWD, and they both still go like stink, it starts to make you wonder how beneficial AWD really is.

Despite this, an AWD TT Coyote GTHP ...... Hmm

Lukeyson

EDManual · 15-07-2009, 10:33 AM

I find it funny that people think "AWD" and "safety". The only thing its good for is accelerating out of corners on slippery roads, which makes you faster. It doesnt make your car handle any better in any other way whatsoever.

I like it though, as faster is better for me... especially on dirt.

But for 90+% of people, they would never see the difference apart from worse fuel economy.

**Luke Plaizier** · 15-07-2009, 10:57 AM

It does stop the likelihood of the rear wheels braking traction and causing a tank slapper. I saw a VY Commodore get into a serious slapper just the other day, whilst accelerating up a straight hill in the wet.

Then again, stability control does that now anyway so perhaps you're right. Is it just a case of admitting that stability control has killed off any need for AWD for safety?

Lukeyson

Road_Warrior · 15-07-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by distortion

I know subaru's are engineered for AWD and Falcons arnt... but seriously, if Subaru can have a decent economy AWD sedan, which in turbo form goes very well, why cant Ford? Surely AWD can be engineered into the next all new Falcon.

For starters, the AWD system in the Territory is designed to propel a 2 ton vehicle on off road trails, wheras the Subaru cars probably wouldn't exceed 1600kg and are designed mainly for road use (Liberty, Impreza et al) with the exception of the Forester.

All that extra engineering for weight and off road use isn't needed in the scoobies and therefore = lighter.

The boxer motors help with the AWD drivetrain layout too, the dirty great big I6 lump standing up in the engine bay isn't exactly ideal for an AWD system (but still works well imo)

tweeked · 15-07-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by distortion

I know subaru's are engineered for AWD and Falcons arnt... but seriously, if Subaru can have a decent economy AWD sedan, which in turbo form goes very well, why cant Ford? Surely AWD can be engineered into the next all new Falcon.

It comes down to design dollars, they would have to be selling 100000's of the subarus all All Wheel drive Versus 30000-40000 odd Falcons. Now engineer the Falcon for two different drivetrains. You will add a few thousand extra sales and probably add uneccesary complexity and weight to the Rwd as well. A quick way to send Ford Aus broke.

Or even worse, turn the Falcon into either Front or All wheel drive

Road_Warrior · 15-07-2009, 02:16 PM

^^^ in addition to that, the R&D costs for the AWD Subies are amortised across several different markets (Japan, Europe, North America) which is worth hundreds of thousands of units to Subaru, in FoA's case those markets don't exist and henceforth the opportunity to spread the development costs over larger numbers.

barra240t · 15-07-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Go into a Ford dealer, its stuck on the windscreen......

??

4Vman · 15-07-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

??

Cheers for that! 20.5l/100 k's city use...
Quite frightening really...

barra240t · 15-07-2009, 02:26 PM

Some people are not worried about Turbo Territory fuel comsumption, some are. We still sell them.

4Vman · 15-07-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

Some people are not worried about Turbo Territory fuel comsumption, some are. We still sell them.

Id live to have 1 but given i do about 800 k's a week all city driving the fuel bill would be nearly $240 per week!

ltd_on20s · 15-07-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

Remember the Magna AWD?

I've only seen a few on the road, they're as rare as hen's teeth.

Went down like the Titanic really.

GK

i got one. a 2005 awd daily driver. an awesome idea not marketed properly.

i have a hi flow Tb coming next week, and a decent exhaust to be done as well

the aussie magna forum has some hipo manifolds, and with a 7psi charger you can crack 260kw safely with no internal mods. might not be massive by any ford turbo setup but big number all the same especially at the lights, with a ricer next to you thinking he and his 80 inch milo tin muffler is going to blow you away.....

great fun in the wet too with massvie amounts of grip, since i changed to 19x8.5s three days ago, which my missus has already jammed one rim into the gutter.......

:

there goes the cash that was supposed to be spent on lowering it.

vztrt · 15-07-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

??

Amazingly the exact same as the figures a posted yesterday.

4Vman · 15-07-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Amazingly the exact same as the figures a posted yesterday.

Funny about that!

**ebxr8240** · 15-07-2009, 06:58 PM

Time will come when AWD will be mech [B]r[/Bwd and fed will be from electric motors.. Also assist in braking which charges batteries..
No full on trans required with this system!!

I guess the boffins know which sells, what price group each vehicle fulls into..
Too many variables from one model can get expensive..

ILLaViTaR · 16-07-2009, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP-03

Why dont Ford make whats available on one model, available on a model which is similar in DNA and vice versa. Turbo AWD is available on Territory and has been for some time, which is awesome, but why cant it be done to the Falcon XR6? How good would it be to have 6 cylinder AWD turbos on LPG across the Falcon/Territory range? Power, grip and economy on a choice of 2 platforms! This is what Ford should be working on yesterday in my opinion, I know I would love an AWD 6 cyl 6 speed LPG Falcon!

AWD may as well be a completely different car lot of changes there, and ford don't have money to develop vehicles that no one would be interested in not to mention vehicles that people would be interested in.