Falcon sedan closes in on Commodore - Page 4

prydey · 17-06-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

That's a fair enough comment for those people that think of Ford and Tickford/FPV as the same company. But many others don't. Are the FPV sedan sales included in the Ford numbers quoted that started this thread? I'd suspect not.

the lwb models from ea - ed were very different from falcon, as was the au series. didn't make a whole lot of difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Personally I see no point in a wagon - Territory's (or SUV's in general) do everything a wagon could do better anyway - IMO of course.

i fitted our new fisher paykel 8.0kg washer in the rear of mine, without folding down the seats. (have a cargo barrier). the one area where there is still no competition is in luggage space. otherwise, i agree.

on a lighter note, recently i went to qld in my wagon. had to take a pic as i don't reckon many other cars could do this either, still keeping plenty of visibility out the rear view mirror. thats luggage for 4 and a pram.

i always find these wagon debates amusing. show of hands from all those who actually hand over the $40k to buy a wagon!! hmmm can't see many hands up. most of the people arguing that ford should make a wagon are only doing so because holden do. they have never owned a wagon and never will. i buy wagons for the reasons demonstrated in the pic. having said that, i don't buy them new, so i'm not actually helping ford out. i've already conceded that my next car will have to be something other than a falcon wagon. at this stage i'll be keeping this one a lot longer than the 3 yrs i've kept most other cars before upgrading.

Chopped · 19-06-2009, 04:44 PM

A wagon would have it all over the Territory for putting stuff in the back.

The ACE that the Territory has is the "command" driving seat position which some like (I don't/the lower the better for me) and the clever, USABLE interior spaces/compartments (< why can't the Falcon have a similar set-up regarding the interior or Commodore or Aurion etc ?!)

Are the XT sales low because it is no longer a fleet princess (now the domain of Camry/Aurion) ?

Might come down to looks aswell, G6E looks awesome, XT looks under-done.

Road_Warrior · 19-06-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

Are the XT sales low because it is no longer a fleet princess (now the domain of Camry/Aurion) ?

Yes

Most of the "large" cars in the Govt fleet where I work are Camrys.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when that Hybrid Camry starts production in Australia, all the government and corporate fleets are going to fall over themselves to buy it. They will sell a shedload of them.

phillyc · 20-06-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yes

Most of the "large" cars in the Govt fleet where I work are Camrys.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when that Hybrid Camry starts production in Australia, all the government and corporate fleets are going to fall over themselves to buy it. They will sell a shedload of them.

Then the fleets will move to locally made Focus' and Cruze's too. At about 1/2 to 2/3rds the purchase cost and similar operating expenses.

R-Design · 20-06-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

That's if they bring out the Diesel, I thought Zetec's were petrol only? If so Ford have really missed the boat.

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...=FOA&c=DFYPage

Sorry gents, there'll be three engine choices for the Mondeo wagon:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575DA001D7271

Road_Warrior · 20-06-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Then the fleets will move to locally made Focus' and Cruze's too. At about 1/2 to 2/3rds the purchase cost and similar operating expenses.

But the Cruze and Focus won't be hybrids. The perceived green credentials of a hybrid will make it the first choice for many government fleets.

phillyc · 20-06-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

But the Cruze and Focus won't be hybrids. The perceived green credentials of a hybrid will make it the first choice for many government fleets.

Do you REALLY think that?

A $35k or thereabouts Camry-hybrid as being preferred over a $22k Focus/Cruze. No way.

The hybrid may be taken over a similarly sized Falcon/C'dore or Aurion though.

prydey · 20-06-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Do you REALLY think that?

A $35k or thereabouts Camry-hybrid as being preferred over a $22k Focus/Cruze. No way.

The hybrid may be taken over a similarly sized Falcon/C'dore or Aurion though.

mate, they drive prius' which are double the price of a corolla (give or take) and are no more efficient or eco friendly and much less eco friendly to manufacture. anything 'hybrid' will get first look as the govt like to look like they are doing the right thing. most car enthusiasts know that hybrids are not what they are cracked up to be.

Road_Warrior · 20-06-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Do you REALLY think that?

A $35k or thereabouts Camry-hybrid as being preferred over a $22k Focus/Cruze. No way.

The hybrid may be taken over a similarly sized Falcon/C'dore or Aurion though.

Mate, I'm IN government. I know how things work here. Make no mistake, they will fawn over it.

Martyvan · 20-06-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

mate, they drive prius' which are double the price of a corolla (give or take) and are no more efficient or eco friendly and much less eco friendly to manufacture. anything 'hybrid' will get first look as the govt like to look like they are doing the right thing. most car enthusiasts know that hybrids are not what they are cracked up to be.

If people looked at the entire manufacturing picture (read batteries mostly) the hybrids take 6 or something years to repay that carbon footprint (of their reduced fuel consumption), so effectively, the cars are 50% more expensive to buy, have a carbon footprint which would be 100% worse over the 3 years/40,000km most govt's keep cars for and people continue to buy them???? there is something wrong in the marketplace.

But, on the other hands, people can pick up a Civic Hybrid at the Qld Govt auctions for mid teens with 35-40k's on it... maybe the 2nd hand market is where they are looking?? the govt wearing the cost for the consumer??? what the?

Road_Warrior · 21-06-2009, 11:51 AM

Of course the Govt is wearing the depreciation for the consumer - just look at the prices ex Govt fleet Falcons go for at auction. I paid $14,500 for mine when it was only 18 months old!!! That's just crazy.

People also gotta be aware of the fact that government departments won't be paying GST on a vehicle purchase (unless it is through a fleetcare manager) and the vehicle is also going to attract a fleet discount, and because Toyotah is hungry for fleet contracts, they're pretty aggressive in that regard. They don't pay full consumer retail for cars.

prydey · 21-06-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Of course the Govt is wearing the depreciation for the consumer - just look at the prices ex Govt fleet Falcons go for at auction. I paid $14,500 for mine when it was only 18 months old!!! That's just crazy.

i paid 16k for mine, similar age, same source. 1.5yrs left on factory warranty and less than 1/2 price.

phillyc · 21-06-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Mate, I'm IN government. I know how things work here. Make no mistake, they will fawn over it.

Well, funny you should say that. I too am IN government, at least government owned corporation. We have a heap more Lancer wagons, Falcon wagons etc than we do Prius. Hybrids make up probably just 5% of the passenger fleet. I think your over generalising. Clearly our fleet of about 2000 (60% commercial) vehicles is different.

naddis01 · 21-06-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Sorry gents, there'll be three engine choices for the Mondeo wagon:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575DA001D7271

The Ford website only mentions a Zetec variant for the Mondeo wagon.

Road_Warrior · 22-06-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Well, funny you should say that. I too am IN government, at least government owned corporation. We have a heap more Lancer wagons, Falcon wagons etc than we do Prius. Hybrids make up probably just 5% of the passenger fleet. I think your over generalising. Clearly our fleet of about 2000 (60% commercial) vehicles is different.

They might make up 5% of your fleet NOW, but when the hybrid Camry starts getting produced locally, it will attract all the normal fleet purchasing options a normal one does simply because of local production - it wont have extra costs like an import tariff for starters.

Looking out my office window over the Departmental motor pool here, the majority of them are already Camrys. The only way a car like a Falcon is going to fly in a government Department (at the moment) is if it is e-gas (of which there is only 1 and that's owned by another department).

JPFS1 · 22-06-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

They might make up 5% of your fleet NOW, but when the hybrid Camry starts getting produced locally, it will attract all the normal fleet purchasing options a normal one does simply because of local production - it wont have extra costs like an import tariff for starters.

Looking out my office window over the Departmental motor pool here, the majority of them are already Camrys. The only way a car like a Falcon is going to fly in a government Department (at the moment) is if it is e-gas (of which there is only 1 and that's owned by another department).

Victoria's 2 largest Government car fleets (Police and DHS) have really dropped commodore (more so DHS), taking up e-gas at far better rates and have the obligatory Prius' and Camry's. I think the next e-gas version will do exceptionally well to be honest.

Road_Warrior · 22-06-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Victoria's 2 largest Government car fleets (Police and DHS) have really dropped commodore (more so DHS), taking up e-gas at far better rates and have the obligatory Prius' and Camry's. I think the next e-gas version will do exceptionally well to be honest.

You're right, it probably will. But for some reason, despite a 'whole of government' approach to purchasing and vehicle usage, some departments have more of one type and others none. Which is funny because the majority of them are used for little more that commuting and CBD taxis for public servants! They were really anti-Ford and Holden here for a while.

It seems that Labor was more inclined to be seen as being green, our Minister was using a Pri-***, as were a few of his cabinet colleagues. Probably more of a publicity stunt than anything else.

R-Design · 22-06-2009, 02:27 PM

I'm not sure if this still happens, but I remember Toyota offering large fleets 'free' vehicles based on units purchased. For example, for every 100 Camry's leased they'd give you 1 Prius. This was when the Hybrids had just entered the market, so I'm guessing it was a way to sweeten their tender and give the client a taste of Hybrid technology.

Having said that, the Prius has now become the vehicle to be 'seen' in if you're trying to make a green statement. Too bad the numbers don't stack up.