VE - "upgraded" V6 - now with less power...

[colossus]

Saw this on LS1 - Link

=Holden has not abandoned its fuel economy push with the Commodore’s 3.6-litre global V6, however, announcing the immediate fitment of the “premium” version of its Alloytec V6 as standard across the Commodore range.

Announced deep within Holden’s AIMS press release, the move sees Omega and Berlina versions of the VE Commodore sedan and Sportwagon, as well as the base Holden Ute, lower their official ADR 81/02 average fuel consumption figure by between 0.2 and 0.4L/100km.

However, while the VE sedan’s official fuel consumption is reduced from 10.8 to 10.6L/100km (its average CO2 emissions similarly drop, from 256 to 252g/km), the entry-level Commodore still falls short of its key rivals in terms of fuel efficiency.

Ford’s entry-level FG Falcon XT returns 10.5L/100km with its standard five-speed automatic and 10.1L/100km with its optional six-speed ZF auto. Toyota’s Aurion V6 returns a class-leading 9.9L/100km at base level.

Meantime, the base Sportwagon models reduce their official fuel consumption figures from 11.1 to 10.7L/100km (CO2 emissions drop from 261 to 256g/km), while V6-powered Holden Utes drop a similar amount - from 11.3 to 10.9L/100km (CO2: 259 v 268g/km).

Crucially, the entry-level Holden V6 now scores the variable exhaust valve timing system of the “High Output” V6 that powers models from the Calais upwards, but it remains mated to GM’s aged four-speed automatic transmission in the Omega and Berlina (and base Ute), which also miss out on premium models’ dual exhaust system.

As such, the “recalibrated” base V6 does not share the 195kW/340Nm performance outputs of the V6 found in premium models, nor even the 180kW and 330Nm peaks of the models they replace.

In fact, with 175kW available at 6500rpm (500rpm higher than before) and 325Nm of torque on tap from 2400rpm (200rpm lower than currently), Holden’s new entry-level V6 offers 5kW and 5Nm less than it did previously.

Now on par with the Commodore’s LPG Alloytec V6, Holden’s revised base petrol V6 is now at a greater performance disadvantage when compared with the Falcon’s 190kW/383Nm 4.0-litre straight six and the Aurion’s 200kW/336Nm 3.5-litre V6, despite remaining less fuel-efficient.

Holden says it remains committed to improving the environmental performance of its volume-selling V6 and is known to be developing a dedicated LPG system to replace its current dual-fuel system. It is expected to match the Duratec V6 LPG engine that will power Ford’s Falcon from mid-2010 by featuring the latest direct liquid injection system.

Holden has also flagged its intention to make available ethanol-compatible versions of the Commodore, as it has with Saab, and Mr Reuss described that vehicle’s hardware as the final piece in its E85 puzzle.

Asked whether Holden would consider investing locally in the same type of ethanol production that is currently being developed in the US, where GM has fostered the manufacture of bio-fuels from household garbage, Mr Reuss said: “Absolutely.

“I would be thoroughly excited if we saw the biotechnology from waste that’s being developed in the US right now cross the ocean into an Australian company and have that capability here.

“I would say we’re not actively looking (to invest) because we’re watching the pilot plant in the US now to see how it goes. (But) We want to play an active role in the establishment of bio-fuels and bio-fuel standards in Australia,” he said

How anyone buys the Commo 6 over the Falcon 6 is beyond me...

[krt10]

the name commadore..... oh and the image

[Pinch]

Ever increasing power in family models seems a bit silly to me, especially in the current climate. I never really found my 157kw EF Futura wanting for a family car, same with my 162kw NC - plenty to go around. The BA was probably a bit much for a standard car, and the new Aurions I always seem to rent - too much for a stocker (although torque steer doesn't help there). 175kw is not bad, although the VE is a bit of a porker. Paying more for less though... Could have kept it the same. If people want economy they are not going to buy an Aussie 6. A lot aren't, but 'poofteenths - sorry Charlie' of a litre aren't going to stem the tide. Are Holden still planning on bringing out a 4 banger 'dore? Also heard about plans for a hybrid. Might be more on the money.

Power outputs aside, I can concur with the sentiment about why would one bother about a Holden 6 over a Ford. The NVH of the base Holden driveline pales in comparison to the Ford. Have owned a VS, spent long k's in a VT and VX and rented a VE. The Ford have been the absolute champ of the Aussie six, ever since Holden went Buick in 1988 leaving the VL's excellent Nissan RB26 behind. Ford really brought the modern hot 6 to the fore with the original XR6 and then the BA Turbo. Not since the VL Turbo has an Aussie 6 been so critically acclaimed.

And to think that all that will be headed the way of the dinosaurs with the Duratech in 2010. Tear. Might go and get me a 'phoon whilst I still can...

[Kryton]

people will still lap it up though, all because it has 'better fuel economy' written on it.
less power to most families means squat all.
that 100ml per hundred, although in the scheme of things is nothing at all, you average Commodore buying Family will see it as a cheaper car to have and will therefore somehow mean they will be better off financially.
at the end of the day, it will still sell in large numbers.

[Silver Ghia]

: http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11237384

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Pinch

Power outputs aside, I can concur with the sentiment about why would one bother about a Holden 6 over a Ford. The NVH of the base Holden driveline pales in comparison to the Ford. Have owned a VS, spent long k's in a VT and VX and rented a VE. The Ford have been the absolute champ of the Aussie six, ever since Holden went Buick in 1988 leaving the VL's excellent Nissan RB26 behind. Ford really brought the modern hot 6 to the fore with the original XR6 and then the BA Turbo. Not since the VL Turbo has an Aussie 6 been so critically acclaimed.

.

Ah the VL had a RB30E not RB26. A RB26 in a VL would be nuts!

The Ecotec wasn't a bad motor for torque and NVH (VS onwards) though utterly unreliable. I have blown up 2 after only relatively mild burnout. A Ford SOHC six will blow a headgasket long before the block while a 250xflow is bulletproof.

No way is a VL Turbo an "Aussie Six".

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Ah the VL had a RB30E not RB26. A RB26 in a VL would be nuts!

The Ecotec wasn't a bad motor for torque and NVH (VS onwards) though utterly unreliable. I have blown up 2 after only relatively mild burnout. A Ford SOHC six will blow a headgasket long before the block while a 250xflow is bulletproof.

No way is a VL Turbo an "Aussie Six".

Absolutely, sorry, huge mistake on my part RB26 v RB30. I am hanging my head in shame!!! Had just read the R32 article in this months Motor, so must have had RB26's on the brain. And the VL being an 'Aussie 6' is a huge misnomer on my part too. I meant that it was probably one of the better 6cyl drivelines in an "Australian built car". Guess this shows that the only decent 6 Holden could manage was a well chosen imported one. This worked a treat, unlike earlier efforts such as the Mazda Roadpacer (Jap market only) - a H(something) Holden with a rotary!

All the Commodore's I have owned all had that rear main seal leak (or something like that - they all seemed to leak), and most of the ones of people I know too. The later cars seem to be a bit better though.

For me, Fords always had the better driveline - even in the thrashy EA-ED years. They always just felt a bit tighter and slightly more refined. Commodores seemed to me though to have the better standard suspension set up though. Nothing that an options box couldn't fix on the Fords though.

It also annoyed me no end that Commodore sedans don't have a split fold rear seat. I use that all the time in the Fords.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Pinch

Absolutely, sorry, huge mistake on my part RB26 v RB30. I am hanging my head in shame!!! Had just read the R32 article in this months Motor, so must have had RB26's on the brain. And the VL being an 'Aussie 6' is a huge misnomer on my part too. I meant that it was probably one of the better 6cyl drivelines in an "Australian built car". Guess this shows that the only decent 6 Holden could manage was a well chosen imported one. This worked a treat, unlike earlier efforts such as the Mazda Roadpacer (Jap market only) - a H(something) Holden with a rotary!

All the Commodore's I have owned all had that rear main seal leak (or something like that - they all seemed to leak), and most of the ones of people I know too. The later cars seem to be a bit better though.

For me, Fords always had the better driveline - even in the thrashy EA-ED years. They always just felt a bit tighter and slightly more refined. Commodores seemed to me though to have the better standard suspension set up though. Nothing that an options box couldn't fix on the Fords though.

It also annoyed me no end that Commodore sedans don't have a split fold rear seat. I use that all the time in the Fords.

IMHO after the demise of the Ford 4-speed top loader the Ford gearboxes are not that superior. They are certainly smoother but no more reliable and prone to clunks and blown rear seals (I have blown one in XE and AU).

My favourite Commodore is the VL though don't belive the VL "indestructible" hype they are prone to blown headgaskets and diffs. The VB-VK were gutless. The VN-VS had this tippy-toe feeling like the engine was going to rattle apart and the chassis was going to snap in half and that it had rope and pulley steering. The VT-VY steered and handled better but it was WAY to heavy and the Ecotec seemed like it always revving it's tit off to move you. The VZ with Alloytech was probably second best to the VL but then the Alloytech turned to a weak piece of in the VE. In the VE the Alloytech engine note seriously seems to be copied from a diff whine and it felt like I was driving a tank.

I like Falcons though their soft suspension and tall gearing combined with slow revving motor makes them "feel" slower than the Commodore. My favourite is the XE I don't care what anyone says they are the best Falcon. Th XD Clevo is incredibly hard to drive the front is too heavy and the back keeps wanting to come round to meet you. There was no XF V8 and EA-FG are too heavy. XE's are tops IMHO. Spiel over..........

[schnoods]

I remember driving an alloytech straight after driving my brother VR V6 back to back.

Apparently the Alloytech had 40 odd kw's more , they sure did hide it well..

[The Monty]

Recent Dyno day saw a mild BF (underdrives, full exhaust, intake) see 180 odd rwkw, a mild alloy tech VX (Y?) (Tune, intake, filter) 120 rwkw. How they can both claim them as 190 kw engines is beyond me.

[XR4568]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Recent Dyno day saw a mild BF (underdrives, full exhaust, intake) see 180 odd rwkw, a mild alloy tech VX (Y?) (Tune, intake, filter) 120 rwkw. How they can both claim them as 190 kw engines is beyond me.

Monty,

If it was a VX or VY, it was an Ecotec they only made 147Kw/152Kw, not the 175/190Kw of the current Alloytech

[The Monty]

Hairy Muff, thought they were all 190's, my bad.

[Wally]

Be interesting to see if the actual 2009 commodores are fitted with the LLT 3.6 (225kW/ 369 Nm) direct injection donk.

[ehast13]

people won't remember that the holden has less power.

Remember how gutless vb thru vk commodores were (especially VB). Even the lightest auto 3.3's couldn't break 18 seconds for the quarter. They were barely more economical than the much quicker falcons and the commies were so small.

A volvo 240 (2.3 litre 100kw, 17.4 sec quarter) auto was quicker and roomier and more economical but the bogans still cruise around in commies with no fear stickers coz Brocky won bathurst in MY CAR. Even the stock V8's (not the HDT's) were slower than a decent efi XE or XF (or a manual 2.3litre Volvo)

Image means a lot. Holden's 'Go bEtter'. Driving a ford just makes you play finger games and tow boats while letting the missus listen to Krap music just to shut her up while the kids puke over the leather trim in the xrb turbo. It's true. I've seen the adds

image is everything

I drive an XC with big rubber coz it's cool. An beige XF would drive much better and be quicker. quieter, brake better, handle better etc etc etc but I like the image of a big 70's car with wide hotwires and BF Goodrich's with raised white lettering.

Commies will always sell coz people often buy with their heart rather than their brain.

If the next falcon was a horse and cart painted blue, I would still buy one and tell everyone else how crap the commodore is. If I am like this then there must be plenty of people who feel the same way about commodores, or nissan skylines, or subarus, or volvos (but not aurions. I just can't accept that)