Is carbon fibre on the way out?

[RAPID_BA]

Over the past few years there has been a bit of a move from accessories on cars being of a chrome/billet/polished look to a carbon fibre look.. Some even do entire roof, bonnets or spoilers.

I've watched closely and personally have always preferred chrome/billet/polished look on accessories as it has a classic timeless look to it. It's a bit of work to maintain but worth it. I'm trying to understand the appeal of carbon fibre on various accessories.

Carbon fibre does look a little "r-spec" and some people like the look when freshly installed.

But people have been doing more than just accessories but entire roofs, bonnets or spoilers. I've noticed of recent times some real ratty looking carbon fibre bits on cars, not just jap cars our fords and holdens as well. Particularly on bits subjected to the sun/weather.

The carbon fibre seems to loose it's lustre very quickly especially on roofs or bonnets exposed to the elements. Does it have a really short life span if subjected to the elements? If so why are people using it?

Interested in pro and cons, dos and do nots and why it appeals to some??

[data_mine]

Make sure you're looking at REAL carbon fibre, not the vinyl/sticker rubbish.

Carbon Fibre made properly won't degrade in the sun. You need to use a UV stabilised resin. The carbon itself will never have a problem.

[falconnut]

so cheap carbon fibre actually isnt all its cracked up to be.

Kinda wondered if this would happen and it did.

[Jack960]

Yeah real carbon fibre is excellent, most of the time I see it on cars and have a closer look its just a vinyl sticker which will fade and degrade over time. Real carbon fibre won't degrade like this.

Pro's: Far lighter than stock parts and usually stronger.
Con's: Expensive

[GTP-RPD]

Carbon fibre is so last decade.....

The new stuff is Carbotanium........lol.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by GTP-RPD

Carbon fibre is so last decade.....

The new stuff is Carbotanium........lol.

Not carbotanium its Unobtanium, but theres not much around.

[AWD Chaser]

I don't believe its on the way out. As a matter of fact, its still very much on the way into mainstream consumer cars due to reduced costs compared to say 10 years ago.

I believe in the next 10 years, we will see a large increase of manufacturer option CF parts - bonnets, wings, interior parts, etc.

[martinijosh]

You won't see it In use on regular consumer cars, it's harder to make a cf bonnet break in a way that avoids killing people.

Aluminium is also easier and cheaper... Until a twig lands on the car and dents it.

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk 2

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by martinijosh

You won't see it In use on regular consumer cars, it's harder to make a cf bonnet break in a way that avoids killing people.

False...

[GTP-RPD]

The new pagani is full of the stuff Carbotanium. Lighter and stronger than CF.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by martinijosh

You won't see it In use on regular consumer cars, it's harder to make a cf bonnet break in a way that avoids killing people.

It's not really even harder anymore. It's taken care of in the design phase, and the layup is different.

The bonnet I run, I've seen one crashed, it crumpled like safety glass, not splinted like the 'save the children' people would have you believe. Don't watch F1 and expect the same, carbon tech in F1 is all about absolutes, they go for the lightest components that'll hold the load they need. They even lay up the carbon in specific ways so it'll be strong in one direction and flexible in another, or strong enough to pass the rules, but flexible at speed for aero wins (*cough* redbull)


As for carbotanium, there's been mixes of carbon and other materials for years now, again for differing strength/weight purposes.

[RAPID_BA]

So are all the scruffy ratty looking examples I see, must be the wrap? Not real carbon fibre?

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

So are all the scruffy ratty looking examples I see, must be the wrap? Not real carbon fibre?

If you see a Falcodore with CF roof, its the vinyl crap. Looks tacky when new, **** when faded.
REAL CF, you will often never notice.

I have always thought that CF dashes etc were rather ****y. Like they couldn't find any other way to make the car more expensive.

Logic suggests that with increased environmental pressure we will see more FRP in cars to make them lighter. But it will take a major revolution in auto manufacture to move from pressed and welded panels.

[data_mine]

Well, I'd say so. Real CF is expensive*. Vinyl stuff is readily available online in pre-cut kits and or rolls to DIY.

Real CF is something that is usually professionally made, unless you have the right gear and skillset. It's like fibreglassing, but the materials are more expensive and more difficult to work with, and takes a perfectionist to get the weave all looking right etc. I can (and do) make small parts (making the molds, laying up the fabric, vacuum injecting the resin etc.), big parts I outsource.



* I'm getting a body kit made, the _deposit_ is over $4k.

[Poorboy_racer]

I was told that Carbon bonnets are NOT legal here in W.A. but fibre glass is. The reason being CF is really hard to put out in the event of a fire. On the Dakar rally when a CF body car goes up there is not much they do, except watch it burn.

[data_mine]

CF isn't flammable.

The resins used in the manufacture of CF are flammable, but once cured are not.

MSDS for carbon fibre: http://www.2spi.com/catalog/msds/msds11431.html

Section 5: Fire Fighting Measures

Flammability classification: Not classified.

Flash Point/Method: Not known, but very high!

Auto-Ignition Temperature: Not determined

Flammable Limits: Lower: Not applicable
Upper: Not applicable

Extinguishing Media: Non-burning

Special Conditions to Avoid: None known

Hazardous products of Combustion: None known

Unusual Fire Hazards: None known

Firefighting procedures/instructions:
Treat the surrounding fire; this product is non-burning.

Properties that could increase fire or explosion hazard:
None known.

[RAPID_BA]

Im considering carbon fibre gear as it has a strong contrast with my yellow paint (instead of black) but ive not seen a neat looking carbon fibre clad b series...

Post up some pics to prove me wrong!!!

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Im considering carbon fibre gear as it has a strong contrast with my yellow paint (instead of black) but ive not seen a neat looking carbon fibre clad b series...

Post up some pics to prove me wrong!!!

Just get it wrapped, I think most pro installers that use the high quality vinyl will guarantee the wrap for 5 years.

It's like everything, you get what you pay for. Some of those ratty ones you've seen we're probably cheapo eBay installs. Or someone still learning.

And at least with a wrap if you don't like it anymore just peel it off.

[data_mine]

I was parked opposite you the other day at Fords in the Park.

Mines not a showy car though, bought and modded to be raced not shown, so it doesn't shine up as nice as it used to, still wearing a tyre barrier witness mark.

Interior pieces


First revision engine bay


Second revision (new airbox), which I made with the wrong resin, so it looks crummy now, but still works fine.


Bonnet, stealthy with the Ego paintwork.


Get the light right though, and you can't miss it.


As mentioned I've a new full carbon body kit currently being made. Not for looks (it'll be a bit OTT), but lightweight, aero efficient and adjustable.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by data_mine

I was parked opposite you the other day at Fords in the Park.

Mines not a showy car though, bought and modded to be raced not shown, so it doesn't shine up as nice as it used to, still wearing a tyre barrier witness mark.

Interior pieces
image

First revision engine bay
image

Second revision (new airbox), which I made with the wrong resin, so it looks crummy now, but still works fine.
image

Bonnet, stealthy with the Ego paintwork.
image

Get the light right though, and you can't miss it.
image

As mentioned I've a new full carbon body kit currently being made. Not for looks (it'll be a bit OTT), but lightweight, aero efficient and adjustable.

Hmmm didn't notice it on Sunday? I'll check my photos.

[mike_nofx]

Seen at the motorshow some new cars come with fake carbon fibre sticker on the roof, Suzuki swift "sport" models from memory.

[Mont5.0]

I stuck my head in your car last sunday Data_mine. Your interior looks good! (i especially like the twin tweeter set up in the A pillars ) Did you do the consol peices yourself?

[UberKnee]

Personally I'm not a big fan of huge amounts of chrome/billet/polished, especially in engine bays, just doesn't appeal to me when an entire engine is polished.

Carbon Fibre is still huge in Supercars and Euros and the vinyl wraps are only just starting to really take off in Australia.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Personally I'm not a big fan of huge amounts of chrome/billet/polished, especially in engine bays, just doesn't appeal to me when an entire engine is polished.

Carbon Fibre is still huge in Supercars and Euros and the vinyl wraps are only just starting to really take off in Australia.

The supercars and euros dont use carbon fibre wrap. They use the real deal for its lightweight properties, nothing more.

The wrap don't lighten anything (actually adds weight) and From what ive seen it looks ratty after a few washes. I don't mind the look when new but looks a bit off when weathered.

If you go to a show n shine you will see all the top cars full of billet, chrome/polished bits, has. Timeless look to it.

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Over the past few years there has been a bit of a move from accessories on cars being of a chrome/billet/polished look to a carbon fibre look.. Some even do entire roof, bonnets or spoilers.

I've watched closely and personally have always preferred chrome/billet/polished look on accessories as it has a classic timeless look to it. It's a bit of work to maintain but worth it. I'm trying to understand the appeal of carbon fibre on various accessories.

Carbon fibre does look a little "r-spec" and some people like the look when freshly installed.

But people have been doing more than just accessories but entire roofs, bonnets or spoilers. I've noticed of recent times some real ratty looking carbon fiber bits on cars, not just jap cars our fords and holdens as well. Particularly on bits subjected to the sun/weather.

The carbon fiber seems to loose it's lustre very quickly especially on roofs or bonnets exposed to the elements. Does it have a really short life span if subjected to the elements? If so why are people using it?

Interested in pro and cons, dos and do nots and why it appeals to some??

It's used in the roof of the current M3 and M5, and several other parts. More or less everything in the Koenigsegg Agera R, including the intake plenum is Carbon Fiber.

It's lighter. It reduces weight in crucial parts of the car such as the roof, the interior, etc where you don't want it. It's expensive to manufacture parts and hard to repair, but well worth it. There's been some recent developments where it's getting much cheaper to use.

As for lustre, unpolished carbon fiber vs polished/painted. You polish it then clearcoat it as they do in supercars if you want to look after it like a painted car.

Originally Posted by falconnut

so cheap carbon fiber actually isnt all its cracked up to be.

Kinda wondered if this would happen and it did.

There's no such thing as 'cheap' carbon fiber. There's vinyl wraps, and actual carbon fibre that's been created properly and pressurized.

Originally Posted by AWD Chaser

I don't believe its on the way out. As a matter of fact, its still very much on the way into mainstream consumer cars due to reduced costs compared to say 10 years ago.

I believe in the next 10 years, we will see a large increase of manufacturer option CF parts - bonnets, wings, interior parts, etc.

BMW have confirmed that they will use carbon fiber parts extensively in the i3 and i8 electric vehicles they are producing. They also currently use carbon fiber in the current M3, and will use it more extensively in the up and coming F30.

Originally Posted by martinijosh

You won't see it In use on regular consumer cars, it's harder to make a cf bonnet break in a way that avoids killing people.

Aluminium is also easier and cheaper... Until a twig lands on the car and dents it.

Go away and educate yourself. Aluminum will get dented as easily as a steel panel. Carbon fiber reinforcement lets you use less aluminum and you can bond the fiber weave to the aluminum directly for less usage of both, minimal cost, and it doesn't kill people (which is a lie, btw)

Also, the BMW M3 is a regular consumer car, so is the C63 AMG. They've used a Carbon Fiber roof for a very long time in the current model lineup.

Originally Posted by GTP-RPD

The new pagani is full of the stuff Carbotanium. Lighter and stronger than CF.

Not all of it. It's also ridiculous levels of expensive, and it's titanium in carbon fiber weave, btw.

Originally Posted by data_mine

It's not really even harder anymore. It's taken care of in the design phase, and the layup is different.

The bonnet I run, I've seen one crashed, it crumpled like safety glass, not splinted like the 'save the children' people would have you believe. Don't watch F1 and expect the same, carbon tech in F1 is all about absolutes, they go for the lightest components that'll hold the load they need. They even lay up the carbon in specific ways so it'll be strong in one direction and flexible in another, or strong enough to pass the rules, but flexible at speed for aero wins (*cough* redbull)

As for carbotanium, there's been mixes of carbon and other materials for years now, again for differing strength/weight purposes.

Modern CF hoods are designed to crumple into zones, as opposed to splinter and shatter. I don't see how Koenigsegg have been allowed to make cars for so long if they're so dangerous and that the European road laws never banned them.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

The supercars and euros dont use carbon fibre wrap. They use the real deal for its lightweight properties, nothing more.

The wrap don't lighten anything (actually adds weight) and From what ive seen it looks ratty after a few washes. I don't mind the look when new but looks a bit off when weathered.

If you go to a show n shine you will see all the top cars full of billet, chrome/polished bits, has. Timeless look to it.

Yeah I know, I wasn't saying Supercars use wraps of course they don;t. Just that carbon fibre is still used widely and carbon fibre wraps/wraps in general are only just starting to take off in 10 years behind the rest of the world Australia.

Wraps are used pretty extensively in Euro cars though aftermarket wise.

And when Billets done to a ridiculous level it just looks tackey, are you building a car or a mirror?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

If you go to a show n shine you will see all the top cars full of billet, chrome/polished bits, has. Timeless look to it.

If you go to a major motor show you will also see CF...


It's nowhere near on the way out, as people move towards the Pro-tourer look, you'll see more Carbon...


Some cars in the US have had the CF treatment on roofs, guards etc...you can even buy CF hot rod bodies now...plus CF manifolds etc...

You can by CF roof panels for your older BMW models now as well...

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by Nikked

If you go to a major motor show you will also see CF...


It's nowhere near on the way out, as people move towards the Pro-tourer look, you'll see more Carbon...


Some cars in the US have had the CF treatment on roofs, guards etc...you can even buy CF hot rod bodies now...plus CF manifolds etc...

You can by CF roof panels for your older BMW models now as well...

Which top motor shows are you talking about? At those shows, Carbon fibre wrapped cars wouldnt make it in at the gate.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Which top motor shows are you talking about? At those shows, Carbon fibre wrapped cars wouldnt make it in at the gate.

Wrapped cars do and carbon fibre isn't just a wrap, real carbon fibre is used as well.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Which top motor shows are you talking about? At those shows, Carbon fibre wrapped cars wouldnt make it in at the gate.

I was talking the real deal, but since you mentioned hit...Summernats, MotoEx...

Wrap's in general are used by the big names...Astill, Myers, Grmusa etc...

Steve Nogas has his Camaro wrapped in Black vinyl...and there was a XY at summernats 25 that had a full brushed metal wrap, with carbon vinyl stripes...


Vinyl wrap is just another exterior option, beats airbrushing! Proper carbon is just another material to build with...


So, yes, Carbon Fiber is still in...