What a nightmare I've just gone through!

[GO FURTHER]

Yesterday I received an invoice for unpaid tolls of trips I did not take on our Citylink toll roads here in Victoria for last month.

Luckily, I keep detailed records of my car and trips in my daily diary, so I know exactly if I used a particular toll road or not.

I also, of course, have a toll account with Citylink (Now known as LinkT) and an E-Tag always mounted on the windscreen of my car, and the account is always in credit.

I double checked my account online for my trip history, which did not show the trips I had been incorrectly invoiced for.

If the invoice was not paid within a certain time frame, it would be handed on to the police who could then issue infringement notices to me totalling many hundreds of dollars.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I rang Citylink to complain that I believed it was a case of "mistaken number plate" identity or someone may have copied my number plate and put it on their car to use the toll roads free.

I demanded photographic evidence that it was my car taken by the cameras at those toll gates.

I explained that my car is very distinctive, easily identifiable a mile away, and could not be mistaken for many cars being a white Mustang with wide black stripes running over the top and front of the car, that would clearly show in any photograph... Not the sort of car you would use in any criminal activity if you wanted to go under the radar.

Sure enough, the photograph is sent to me, and it is a Toyota bearing the same number plate as mine! The Toyota emblem on the grille showing clearly.

Now Citylink cameras can only take photos in black and white and not colour.
So the colour of the number plate or car cannot be ascertained.

The guy I spoke to a Citylink in their photo department was very helpful and could see from their records that my plate was registered to a Ford Mustang and not a Toyota and agreed to waive the toll fees.

I told him there were only two possibilities since my number plates are still on my car and have not been stolen...

1. Someone has copied my plate, printed it out and pasted it on their front number plate while travelling through toll roads.

or 2. It is possible to have the exact same number plate in different states within Australia, and someone from interstate with the same number as mine has come to Victoria and driven through the toll roads without an E-tag or paying for the trips.

I asked him to check the "state" displayed on the number plate in the photos.
Unfortunately, no state such as Vic or NSW was identifiable on the plate.

So I decided to do my own detective work.

I ran the number plate through this site: https://ismyairbagsafe.com.au
Which allows you to type in any number plate and state to see if you are affected by the "Takata airbag recall".

It tells you which vehicle the plate belongs to.

When I input my plate number and tried different states, it identified the vehicle as a Toyota RAV 4 registered in NSW.

I called the guy back at Citylink and told him my findings, and that he could now do a search on the transport system they have access to for NSW and determine the owner of the vehicle and pass on the invoice or fines.

I find it quite disturbing that you can have the same number plate registered to different cars on a state by state basis in Australia, as this is what can happen, especially if you have "custom plates".

Anyway, I now have an email letter in writing and the photo from Citylink, should I incur any more invoices from this car with my number travelling Victoria's toll roads for free.

It's worth checking the link I provided above to see if anyone else in another state has the same rego number as yours.

[jpd80]

Wow, glad to hear you had a speedy resolution and good outcome.

I guess that's what happens when state governments don't talk to one another,
I wonder how many other doppelgangers are out there and how many people
have been stung and just paid the bills...

[stig_3754]

I don't have an issue with the same number being registered in a different state, however I do find it disturbing that for all the money they make in tolls over the years that they couldn't distinguish which state the plates are from and assume they're Victorian.

And also the fact that this was sent as a separate invoice rather than these trips showing up on your history, which should just add a 'no tag fee' for not seeing your tag but detecting your plate which is registered.

A calamity of errors and as I said very alarming considering how much these grubs make from these tolls.

[whitelion65]

Great detective work, GF.


And not as bad as I thought the situation may have been
Is it Macquarie Bank who owns the system down there?

[mike_nofx]

You’re very lucky if that’s what’s considered a nightmare to you, issue identified and fees waived!
First world nightmare?

[Raptor]

But what if the NSW Plate owner also owned a white Mustang.

What then

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Raptor

But what if the NSW Plate owner also owned a white Mustang.

What then

I agree, and it could happen, especially with more common cars like the Falcons.

Okay so let's now look at it another way... Knowing what I know now, that there is another car in NSW with the same plate as mine...
I am going to drive my car on holiday in NSW, take out my E-Tag, drive through all the toll roads, and that poor RAV 4 owner is going to be copping my toll fees.

Australians don't have the same two Medicare, Passport, Licence, or Tax file numbers.

Cars cross state borders, number plate numbers should also be unique.

It is also a failing of the Citylink toll system... They can identify plate numbers using automatic plate recognition technology, but not from which state it was issued... The Citylink guy I spoke to in their camera/photograph department confirmed this to me.

That's another reason why I don't publish my plate number on AFF photos of my car or other forums or social media.

Someone, signs up, searches a Ford or Falcon in the colour they are looking for (especially in the Show N' Shine forum), that matches their car (or stolen car), copies the plate, and next you have to explain to the police that your car did not go through those red light or speed cameras, or worse still, were not involved in the bank robbery.

Sure, people see your car plate on your car while driving down the road, so why hide it online? ... But the difference is AFF has over 120,000 members and many more guests visiting these forums every day... Not everyone is an upstanding member of society, and it's easy to search for cars and matching paint colour online than randomly waiting until you see the exact match on the road.

Maybe you think that's being over cautious... But lots of personal identities are stolen every day through people posting stuff about themselves and personal details online.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

I agree, and it could happen, especially with more common cars like the Falcons.

Okay so let's now look at it another way... Knowing what I know now, that their is another car in NSW with the same plate as mine...
I am going to drive my car on holiday in NSW, take out my E-Tag, drive through all the toll roads, and that poor RAV 4 owner is going to be copping my toll fees.

Australians don't have the same two Medicare, Passport, Licence, or Tax file numbers.

Cars cross state borders, number plate numbers should also be unique.

It is also a failing of the Citylink toll system... They can identify plate numbers using automatic plate recognition technology, but not from which state it was issued... The Citylink guy I spoke to in their camera/photograph department confirmed this to me.

That's another reason why I don't publish my plate number on AFF photos of my car or other forums or social media.

Someone, signs up, searches a Ford or Falcon in the colour they are looking for (especially in the Show N' Shine forum), that matches their car (or stolen car), copies the plate, and next you have to explain to the police that your car did not go through those red light or speed cameras, or worse still, were not involved in the bank robbery.

Sure, people see your car plate on your car while driving down the road, so why hide it online? ... But the difference is AFF has over 120,000 members and many more guests visiting these forums every day... Not everyone is an upstanding member of society, and it's easy to search for cars and matching paint colour online than randomly waiting until you see the exact match on the road.

Maybe you think that's being over cautious... But lots of personal identities are stolen every day through people posting stuff about themselves and personal details online.

I reckon carsales would be the first point of call. Easy to search car, colour, etc.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

It is also a failing of the Citylink toll system...

Yeah, well my VF has a BMW 740i in Vic with the same plates.

On the upside they can probably afford to pay for my indiscretions

There is no doubt in my mind the whole toll collection deal needs a look at.

For a couple of months my ute was being charged at "private use" rate (which is how it's registered) on one side of the Gateway Bridge and "commercial use" on the return leg of the same trip.

I had to "prove" that it was registered as "private use" even though they believed it half the time

[Sprintey]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tujqM2u-BVo

[OzJavelin]

Interesting .. NSW vehicle with same plate as mine .. Beemer though.

I am concerned though, as my '65 Chev Corvair, '69 AMC Javelin and '74 AMC Javelin came up on https://ismyairbagsafe.com.au as "Unknown"?? Maybe I need my airbag checked? ;)

[ebv8]

i rang e-toll about my tag not working and they told me it was suspened due to tampering of the tag...WTF!
its been on my wifes car for 3 years and before that was on her old car for 4 years and before that was on my work car for so many years

they told me to bring it in asap to be sent off and checked so they could determine how it was tampered with

anyway i dropped it off at the RMS and the guy there said its a load of crap and he gave me a new one

[mike_nofx]

What number and letter combination is your plate? I thought no 2 states had the same?

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

What number and letter combination is your plate? I thought no 2 states had the same?

Personalised custom plates... Two letters followed by 3 digits.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Personalised custom plates... Two letters followed by 3 digits.

Same here ... with NSW doppelganger ..

[roKWiz]

Glad you got it sorted.
I parked behind a locksmiths van in Sydney CBD last time I was there and the number plate was LOKGUY, I was in my Vic registered motorhome / truck, ROKGUY, we both took a step back when we saw each others plate.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Personalised custom plates... Two letters followed by 3 digits.

I got worried as my plates are also two letters plus 3 numbers (had them for 40 years now), but a check through all the other states via your link shows my combination is not issued elsewhere.

Thanks for the heads up on this GF.

[GO FURTHER]

Playing the devil's advocate here... Here's an interesting scenario... You live on a border town, like Albury - Wodonga or Echuca & Moana in Vic / NSW.

As a resident, you are frequently crossing the river border between the two states.

Vic resident registers ME-666 in Vic and NSW hoon resident registers ME-666 in NSW.

Both go for the same custom colours for digits and background.

Hmm... Unless the "state" is clearly visible in one of those number plate frames... Well, I would not want to be living in those border towns with speed cameras, and same number.

There should be a federal system for number plates, or at less an agreement between states that the same number cannot be registered twice in two or more states.

[Rallye Sport]

I've got a couple of sets of plates, both six digits, the only difference is a number 0 and on the other set it reads the letter O. You can barely tell them apart.
It amazed me they slipped through the DOT but on the other hand I have been refused other combinations for much larger differences.
There needs to be a written standard shared by all states and territories as a common rule.

[RANGEREST]

An acquaintance of mine has a VF GTS here in Vic, someone up in Qld has copied his custom plates, Vic bit and all, attached them to a VE Clubby (pics from tolls show this) and has been speeding through tolls at 185 and 165kph.
Now he has to somehow prove its not his car or Qld Police are going to confiscate his car.
They want him to appear in court to defend himself, which is a pita being 1800ks away.
He's going to send a stat dec with help from the local constabulary, and hopefully that'll be the end of it.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by RANGEREST

An acquaintance of mine has a VF GTS here in Vic, someone up in Qld has copied his custom plates, Vic bit and all, attached them to a VE Clubby (pics from tolls show this) and has been speeding through tolls at 185 and 165kph.
Now he has to somehow prove its not his car or Qld Police are going to confiscate his car.
They want him to appear in court to defend himself, which is a pita being 1800ks away.
He's going to send a stat dec with help from the local constabulary, and hopefully that'll be the end of it.

The best way to ensure it does not happen again for your friend, is for him to hand in his plates to Vicroads to hold on "retention" (so he still owns them), and get a new number put on his car, which costs less than $50 to do.

He now has written proof from Vicroads that they have his plates securely in storage via the receipts and paperwork.

That way he now has proof that from a certain date, his plates were being held at Vicroads if the VE Chubby in QLD continues to use his plates.

Actually if he does that, and the VE Chubby racks up more fines, it will work in your friend's favour in court as evidence that his plates are being used by a third party.

[CyberWasp]

I am wondering why it is not mandatory for all Toll and Parking Fines from Photos to be thoroughly scrutinised before they are issued.

Apart from the instance you have highlighted in this thread, another common issue are letters on plates being misread. Examples being letters like s being confused with the number 5.

The first thing the people issuing these fines should do is to look at the plate and then the car it is attached to, to see if it matches the car in the database. If not it should be escalated and looked at in more detail.

You are guilty until proven innocent.
They are happy to take the money, but you are not compensated for all the red tape and time you go through to prove their mistake.

[GASWAGON]

I am dead sure i saw a story on A Current Affair a while ago about how 'the asians' are doing this number plate 'copying' stuff.
'
I think it was Victoria markets in Melbourne theres a stall there where you can get 'ANY' type of number plate stamped and made on the spot.

Fricken crazy world we now live in!!!

Oh and i was in Adelaide about 6 months ago for a week for work.

The Sth Oz number plates are all over the place its quite funny actually.

ALL sorts of wierd different numbers and letters over there!!!

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by BFBarraWGN

I am dead sure i saw a story on A Current Affair a while ago about how 'the asians' are doing this number plate 'copying' stuff.
'
I think it was Victoria markets in Melbourne theres a stall there where you can get 'ANY' type of number plate stamped and made on the spot.

Fricken crazy world we now live in!!!

See that's the thing... If the thieves steal your plates from your car, you report them as stolen... That goes straight to the police and transport authorities database.

Many police cars now have number plate recognition technology cams as they drive along the road, and alerts them on suspect plates, etc.

So easier to get caught nowadays.

But make a copy, put them on the same model car and colour and you could go undetected for a long time as no one would know.

Hmm... Here's an idea.... Buy two cars exactly the same model, year and colour.... Register only one of them and move the plates between them depending which one you want to drive each day.
Half your rego costs per year.

And what's more our Vic state government has made it even easier, as now there are no more rego labels stuck to the windscreen required with the rego number printed on it to match the number plate.

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Many police cars now have number plate recognition technology cams as they drive along the road, and alerts them on suspect plates, etc. So easier to get caught nowadays.
But make a copy, put them on the same model car and colour and you could go undetected for a long time as no one would know.
And what's more our Vic state government has made it even easier, as now there are no more rego labels stuck to the windscreen required with the rego number printed on it to match the number plate.

On NSW rego papers, there's no mention of the vehicles colour, although it will show up on a police car's computer, so if the car has been resprayed a different colour and it hasn't been updated with the RMS, you can be handed a nice revenue raiser from your friendly law enforcement man.
Fair comment re the plate copies - you can even go on the NSW RMS site and check when the rego is current to - so provided you're not pulled up for speeding, etc, shouldn't be a problem. IIRC from the RBT's I've been through over the last few years, I've not had to show a drivers licence or be queried on rego.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

See that's the thing... If the thieves steal your plates from your car, you report them as stolen... That goes straight to the police and transport authorities database.

Many police cars now have number plate recognition technology cams as they drive along the road, and alerts them on suspect plates, etc.

So easier to get caught nowadays.

But make a copy, put them on the same model car and colour and you could go undetected for a long time as no one would know.

Hmm... Here's an idea.... Buy two cars exactly the same model, year and colour.... Register only one of them and move the plates between them depending which one you want to drive each day.
Half your rego costs per year.

And what's more our Vic state government has made it even easier, as now there are no more rego labels stuck to the windscreen required with the rego number printed on it to match the number plate.

Funny you should say this,
I have 4 Ford Trader trucks all are Stark White, all around 90-92 models, all have identical drivetrain, 2 Are flat beds and 2 are van bodies. The 2 van bodies share a letter off custom plates. With one of the flatbeds having a similar custom plate as well.
Imagine the money I could save swapping plates whenever I wanted to but imagine the damage I could do in an accident and then with the possibilities of the authorities checking the chassis numbers afterwards.

I already have some locals scratching their heads, thinking I must change the van bodies somehow until I inform them the plates are slightly different and they are not the same truck.
Even Vicroads are confused since I bought the Falcon PVan because it to is registered as a 93 Stark White Ford van.

ROCGUY



ROKGUY



and ROKWIZ

[PridenJoy]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Hmm... Here's an idea.... Buy two cars exactly the same model, year and colour.... Register only one of them and move the plates between them depending which one you want to drive each day.
Half your rego costs per year.

And what's more our Vic state government has made it even easier, as now there are no more rego labels stuck to the windscreen required with the rego number printed on it to match the number plate.

Worked......err i mean, would work well except as mentioned, in the case of an accident (one) car is not insured and a can of worms opens up with ugly outcomes.

[GO FURTHER]

Just received an update to my dilemma from Linkt (Citylink)...

They sent me an email stating that my number plate is now on their "watch list" for all toll roads they manage nationally if there is a dispute.

What this means, is that every time my number plate or someone else with the same number interstate goes through any of their tolling camera points, it will be examined to ensure it goes to the rightful owner on future trips.

I also have a contact person looking after the case and case number for reference, I can contact if future errors are made and I am incorrectly invoiced.

So hopefully this won't happen to me again.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by BFBarraWGN

...Oh and i was in Adelaide about 6 months ago for a week for work.

The Sth Oz number plates are all over the place its quite funny actually.

ALL sorts of wierd different numbers and letters over there!!!

Yeah we are now: X111 XXX (Letter Number Number Number Space Letter Letter Letter)...used to be: XXX 111 (Letter Letter Letter Space Number Number Number).

But either plate style works with our toll system:

[solarite_guy]

This has been an especially interesting topic for me as I am reminded of a time when I had just put my '69 Mach 1 back on the road after some nice reno work.

I get this official letter in the mail from the Washington D.C police, dept of investigations. They wanted me to take my car to them for impound and investigations of a hit and run. WTF??????!!!!!!!

I live in a neighbouring state, Maryland, and my county also neighbours DC. I live in the extreme far corner from DC, as far as one can get. At the time it was "Green Acres" country.

So I called the number and spoke to the officer in charge of the investigation. To be honest he was a ***** and I told him, no, I am not taking my car down there.

Called a recommended lawyer who, after getting the background info, set up a 3 way telephone call. He told me not to say anything until asked.

Turns out it was another damn blue Toyota and the driver was of a different ethnicity. My Mach 1 was burgundy, flat black hood, mustard C stripes.

Back then, I think that call only cost me $25.