My reason why Aussie car sales are falling

[Brazen]

Today marked a milestone in my family. My father traded in his silver BF Futura on a charcoal Mazda 3 Maxx Sport.

Its a milestone for a few reasons:
Its his first 4 cylinder
Its his first front wheel drive
Its his first imported car.

He has bought Australian-made Falcons and Chryslers for 40 years. These cars took me and my siblings on some of the best road trips into the heart of Australia that I will remember for the rest of my life.

In his daily life he drives from Adelaide to a farm he owns outside Port Augusta every fortnight to check up on the harvest or production - he has been doing this for a couple of decades. Its a 700km round trip which takes him into the heart of the Flinders Ranges, his Aussie Fords were perfect for this trip - big, lazy, rugged, powerful, safe and comfortable. He loved the drive.

On those long roads he used to average about 130kmh, heck when I was a kid he would sit on about 140kmh on some of the long straight sections on the unrestricted speed limit sections. Things started to change, the roads started getting a lot better and the 110kmh limit was introduced - no biggie as the people still drove at speeds comfortable to the conditions so sitting on 130 was the norm. But in the last decade the police started to crack down on speed, mobile cameras were set up in some locations and penalties starting to get harsher. It really hit home two years ago when my father got pulled over for doing 126kmh after just overtaking a semi trailer. He couldnt believe that he could get booked for safely overtaking a truck. Now talk of point-to-point speed cameras was the final straw.

He now does the trip sitting on the 110kmh speed limit. He has two points left on his license, yet hasnt had an accident since the early 70s (over 35 years ago when he reversed his two month old Falcon into a concrete letter box). He hates the drive now, its frustrating, its slow and he feels like a rat trapped in a cage as he sees the long straight road ahead. He hated having a 4 litre 6 cylinder engine under his right foot and having to slowly trundle along - kind of like dangling a cheeseburger in front of starving man.

So maybe falling 6 cylinder car sales arnt due to fuel prices, but maybe its due to the changing road speeds. When I was helping my brother shop for a car last year, I suggested an XR6 turbo - his first response wasnt about the price or fuel or insurance , instead he replied ' I cant get one, I would lose my licence too quick'. He bought a Golf.

Who needs a 200kw 6 cylinder, when a little 4 cylinder does the same job on those heavily speed enforced roads.

Looking at the Mazda 3 sitting in the driveway, in the same place which has housed the most outstanding Australian Fords, I am sad for my dad, sad for the local industry, and in the end, sad for myself - as I know the old days are over.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Who needs a 200kw 6 cylinder, when a little 4 cylinder does the same job on those heavily speed enforced roads..

I do, actually 310kw :-)

[Iggypoppin']

it is unfortunate, yes, that things have come to this...i suppose it sucks even worse in adelaide, where we are without a drag strip and thus missing out bigtime compared to other states.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by Brazen

So maybe falling 6 cylinder car sales arnt due to fuel prices, but maybe its due to the changing road speeds. When I was helping my brother shop for a car last year, I suggested an XR6 turbo - his first response wasnt about the price or fuel or insurance , instead he replied ' I cant get one, I would lose my licence too quick'. He bought a Golf.

Who needs a 200kw 6 cylinder, when a little 4 cylinder does the same job on those heavily speed enforced roads.

Unfortunately I have a similar feeling although I'm not thinking of enforcement as much as lower speed limits, more traffic and more congestion. You dont get a chance to make the most of a powerful car on the daily drive nowadays. Modern 4cyl cars are more than adequate for the task.

My next car may very well be a 4cyl, which will also be my first, having had 2 consecutive V8 Falcons for the last 6+ years and a string of 6cyl and V8s before them. I will probably still have a V8 weekender though.

[Mr Hardware]

That's an excellent writeup Brazen. The fact that you can buy 4-cyl cars these days with the same interior room as an EH or a HR or even an early series commodore sees the masses wonder why they need a full size six. And the motors in them propel them to 100 in under ten seconds, so why would they bother with a six?

There are so many things the public are wrong about, and car buying choices is one of them. I'll dare say the majority of people drive the wrong car.

My father, for example, traded in his six for a four in the mid eighties when the fuel prices were high. He bought another four in the nineties and is looking to buy another car this year. He'll buy a Camry. Despite the fact that the camry and the aurion have basically the same dimensions and the same 9.9L/100klms sticker on the windscreen, he would not for even a second consider the Aurion, but the Camry is a definite.

What is it? Why is there such hate for six cylinder vehicles? Where is this social stigma coming from? WHY WHY WHY?

People don't really care about fuel economy. If they did they'd get serious and buy a LPG or a TD vehicle. But they don't. A ten litre per hundred, mediocre in every possible way vehicle is somehow appealing to them. I don't understand, and i'm pretty sure Ford doesn't either. They produce the finest car on the road that doesn't cost a fortune, the Falcon, and people shun it and buy some crappy little mazda or ugly subaru instead, that'll almost assuredly have a higher TCO.
WHY?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

My father, for example, traded in his six for a four in the mid eighties when the fuel prices were high. He bought another four in the nineties and is looking to buy another car this year. He'll buy a Camry. Despite the fact that the camry and the aurion have basically the same dimensions and the same 9.9L/100klms sticker on the windscreen, he would not for even a second consider the Aurion, but the Camry is a definite.

In my dads case, fuel use wasnt really a consideration. He just didnt want another 6 cylinder with the speed limits so heavily enforced. As you know a 6 cylinder Falcon is pretty impressive on the open road in regards to fuel use. But with two points on his license, he doent need a 200kw Falcon, even in outback Australia.

He just didnt see the point in having the power there he cant use. He finds the 600km trek at 110kmh very tiring, he felt a 4 cyinder car at those speeds would feel faster and keep him awake and make the drive less frustrating. He may be wrong but I understand his logic.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Brazen

He just didnt see the point in having the power there he cant use. He finds the 600km trek at 110kmh very tiring, he felt a 4 cyinder car at those speeds would feel faster and keep him awake and make the drive less frustrating. He may be wrong but I understand his logic.

I love power i can't use. I love power i can't control even more, a little self restraint is all that's required.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I love power i can't use. I love power i can't control even more, a little self restraint is all that's required.

That's it. I haven't been to a track in a good 10 years and over that time I've owned V8's and now own an AWD V6 crammed into a small hatch. I'm probably going to find my way into a Turbo I6 as my next car!

For whatever reason, I enjoy driving a powerful car up to the speed limit over a bland box on wheels to it. It would be a whole lot better on my wallet if I could happily drive from A to B in a Getz, but the thought of doing so makes me curl up into a ball.

I don't drive like a numbnuts on the road, my job depends on my licence. But after a crap job that finishes at 2am in the morning, just turning a nice car over and heading back home with the odd tiny squirt makes the day seem not as bad.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I love power i can't use. I love power i can't control even more, a little self restraint is all that's required.

OH so true!!!!

I think its always been the way ..... have the bigger family cars and as things go on in life, people scale down and one day you wake up and theres a Corolla in the drive way.

Commodore is still Australia's largest selling car (family) while Corolla is next (Young, skips a generation then old). Falcon and all the SUV's are still in the top of the tree and will be for some time. To buy something smaller because of speed cameras is false economy (right foot). Many other reasons to buy a buzz box before this one (economy).



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[Stattic]

Originally Posted by Brazen

He just didnt see the point in having the power there he cant use. He finds the 600km trek at 110kmh very tiring, he felt a 4 cyinder car at those speeds would feel faster and keep him awake and make the drive less frustrating. He may be wrong but I understand his logic.

he is right, my dads transit revs at 3500rpm or something silly like that in 5th doing 100kph and it feels like were going a hell of a lot faster than i feel driving the AU

i also agree with others here, that was an excellent write-up and honestly it is true.
imagine the market if more women chose to drive falcons! small car parks and park spacing is a huge factor, how many women say "i want a small car, ill never be able to park a falcon"? how many men do you hear saying things like "i wanted the falcon/commodore but the missus has got to drive it so we ended up with *insert small-mid size car name*"
i know im stereotyping and i know a lot of girls do drive large cars but it does hold true, especially for p platers are older women, they want something that gets them from A to B with minimum hassle where they dont have to resort to touch parking

the best car for a 'politically' road safe driver (read; no 'hooning' or speeding) these days is a v8 with a sweet sounding exhaust, theres no need to go fast or even accelerate hard when you can just sit there all day and listen to the purr of the machine and with the extra low rpm torque you dont have to rev it to high road speeds to get that satisfying pull of power within the speed limit

[rag top]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

People don't really care about fuel economy. If they did they'd get serious and buy a LPG or a TD vehicle.

I did just that - replaced an AU wagon with a TD Mazda 3; why - the Mazda had more torque than the wagon and was perfect size wise for carting 2 kids around town. Fuel economy is outstanding in comparison, and you can have some fun on hilly roads. I still have my AU ute and a couple of windsor projects as well.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by rag top

I did just that - replaced an AU wagon with a TD Mazda 3; why - the Mazda had more torque than the wagon and was perfect size wise for carting 2 kids around town. Fuel economy is outstanding in comparison, and you can have some fun on hilly roads. I still have my AU ute and a couple of windsor projects as well.

I just sold a Mazda 3 because it is too small ! , 1 kid, 1 on the way and 2 adults!!! Bought the new turbo CX7 luxury sport though as a replacement for the Mrs... Best mid sized SUV on the market under 50K....

Now for me.... is that a coyote i hear.....?

[zetec]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I just sold a Mazda 3 because it is too small ! , 1 kid, 1 on the way and 2 adults!!! Bought the new turbo CX7 luxury sport though as a replacement for the Mrs... Best mid sized SUV on the market under 50K....

Now for me.... is that a coyote i hear.....?

Hope you know your local Petrol Station manager well, you'll be putting his kids through uni in one of those.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by zetec

Hope you know your local Petrol Station manager well, you'll be putting his kids through uni in one of those.

Not at 5000k's per year.... besides, the other option the turbo terri @20l/100k makes it look like a Prius..

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

That's an excellent writeup Brazen. The fact that you can buy 4-cyl cars these days with the same interior room as an EH or a HR or even an early series commodore sees the masses wonder why they need a full size six. And the motors in them propel them to 100 in under ten seconds, so why would they bother with a six?

Look at the Pulsars/Corollas etc of 20 years ago and compare them to now. My Dad said how his Kia Cerato : has more interior room than his old 1990 Camry V6. : The 2.0 litre 4 cyl cars now have slightly more power than my old XE (but less torque), more headroom and probably a touch more legroom for the driver. The taller boots you see on most new medium cars enable them to match the boot space volume of previous generation larger cars. So, previously I overlooked smaller cars because they were too small and as a result uncomfortable to drive and underpowered. Now they are coming up to meet the expectations of many drivers. They are now a viable family car for a family of up to 5 people. With the larger cars, now you get a base engine with better power and torque figures than the optioned 8 cyl model of a decade ago. There will still be a number who stick with the large sedan, but we've lost sales to people who went for something smaller (4 cyl) or bigger (SUV/people mover).
Those who go for an SUV - this illustrates that fuel economy isn't as big an issue for people who want larger cars. A 2 tonne SUV with a 6 cyl petrol will use more fuel than a Falcodore 6 cyl.
As many of the 4 cyl cars are FWD, the good ones are setup better handling-wise. We see alot less of the older FWD car traits - the choice of understeer or more understeer. So the RWD vs FWD isn't as big a deal. RWD is still better though :

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

There are so many things the public are wrong about, and car buying choices is one of them. I'll dare say the majority of people drive the wrong car.

I've been saying that for ages. I think most people should employ car enthusiasts to pick their cars LOL!. Ok maybe not (we dont' need everyone driving FPV F6s) but get some sort of knowledgable person to help you out. Or do some research online FFS...look at what has won awards, whats specs, test drive etc. While i realise being a car nut is not for everyone, the 'laid back' attitude some peopel have to car purchasing shocks me to be honest...especially when you consider the cost of a vehicle, its operating costs and more importantly, the amenity and safety they experience every minute their backside is in the seat/s....

[Road_Warrior]

Hence the reason Ford are bringing a 4 pot Falcon to the market.

It could also be brand perception and stigma, Ford have burnt a lot of people over the years with reliability and warranty concerns.

It could also be that there is simply more choice for your dollar.

It could also be value for money. Why spend $35K on a bare bones Falcon XT when you can get a fully loaded Mazda 3 with all the interior gadgets and nick-knacks for the same price? If you have decided that you don't expressly need a 6, then the feature-loaded small cars get the first look in.

Ford have got to improve the content of the Falcon to bring it up to parity with what imports are offering otherwise the large car exodus will continue.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It could also be that there is simply more choice for your dollar.

It could also be value for money. Why spend $35K on a bare bones Falcon XT when you can get a fully loaded Mazda 3 with all the interior gadgets and nick-knacks for the same price? If you have decided that you don't expressly need a 6, then the feature-loaded small cars get the first look in.

Ford have got to improve the content of the Falcon to bring it up to parity with what imports are offering otherwise the large car exodus will continue.

This is a good point.
For 36k I could have got another base Falcon (with all the optional problems) but chose to get a fully specced XR5 Focus which IMO is better built, handles better, better economy than the I6, better resale, better insurance and still comfortably fits four people (leather only allows 4 people) and decent luggage.

[zetec]

Originally Posted by Wretched

This is a good point.
For 36k I could have got another base Falcon (with all the optional problems) but chose to get a fully specced XR5 Focus which IMO is better built, handles better, better economy than the I6, better resale, better insurance and still comfortably fits four people (leather only allows 4 people) and decent luggage.

Or for $36k D/A a Mondeo Zetec with more bootspace, interior space, standard safety, luxury and comfort than ANY Mazda 3 can offer (even the over $40k MPS version)...

[irlewy86]

Perception, Perception, Perception.

The three things killing the Aussie car industry.

[BOSHOG]

i decided to go to a 4 banger this time around, 03 STI, and already ive notived MUCH better economy (190km from less than half a tank, and the tank is smaller) than i got from my BOSS. and this is wringing its neck to see what its got, i struggled to get more than 320km/tank out of the 8

[SumoDog68]

To suggest VW Golf is any different in regards to ability to drive fast on the open road is streching the truth a bit. Most euro cars will comfortably cruise at much higher speeds than Falcons and Commodores as they were designed from the onset for that kind of work.
You can drive any car at 140km/h and lose all your points very quickly, it has little to do with 4,5,6,or 8 cyl engine configuration.

[FPV+fteT3]

If you drive a lot in the country on country hwy's (not f3 or hume type) they are narrow winding rough roads with the only overtaking being unbroken lines and to pass you have to get on the wrong side of the road thats where the V8 or 6 come into their own. I know in either of my fords go back 2 gears and blink and the road train is over. Got to be safer than spending 5 mins winding up the rubber band on a 4cyl car.
I would rather drive the falcons on a long road trip than my impreza they are more comfortable on a long trip and being bigger make you feel safer however around town and parking in the city the impreza is perfect.
Maybe the current type of car buyers think about what use their car will have for the most part and buy accordingly. If you live in the outback you probably wouldn't buy a buzzbox. I love my falcons and the V8 but the imprezza cops the shopping centres and general duties after driving the Fords you can park a subie anywhere .

[eb2fairmont]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

To suggest VW Golf is any different in regards to ability to drive fast on the open road is streching the truth a bit. Most euro cars will comfortably cruise at much higher speeds than Falcons and Commodores as they were designed from the onset for that kind of work.
You can drive any car at 140km/h and lose all your points very quickly, it has little to do with 4,5,6,or 8 cyl engine configuration.

Damn right there. I currently have a golf diesel and love it. It will do 170 and it feels like 80. The overtaking performance is just as good as a Commmodore or Falcon and with 320 Nm from 1750 rpm - 4000 rpm I don't have to rev the bum out of it to do it. I see the problem with the industry in the following points:

1. Small cars are near the HR/EH size now. Most families have enough room with a car of a 2600mm wheelbase. This is similar to the VB commodores, TP magna, EH and latest corolla.

2. Prices of small cars from 20K upwards give people a cost effective option when it comes to getting that space in a car. So why pay more when you dont need the space or performance.

3. There's a lot more discretionary purchases. Novated leasing took care of that. That's why the swing with commodore and Falcon models is towards the higher spec models and not the fleet specials.

4. Residuals. If you're spending 40K on a car why bother buying a commodore omega or falcon XT which won't be worth squat at the end. (This is why the model mix is skewed towards XR6 and SS models at the moment they have better retained value.)

5. After sales service. Compare the experience with Holden/Ford with the rest. The poor quality lemons and poor customer service will bite Holden and Ford for years to come. Look how long it took Jag to get out of that stigma of "poor quality".

However, the purchase of a commodore or Falcon to a private buyer is based on a certain attachment to the brand - based on performance, bang for buck and heritage. This is their unique USP.

Going forward Holden and Ford need to focus on the things that matter which are:

1. Running costs (either advertising or new technologies ie: I4T)
2. Residuals
3. Dealer network.
4. Promoting the USP of their car. 6 or v8 performance with 4 cyl economy, a mileage marathon, heritage, ability to handle rough conditions etc.

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

1. Small cars are near the HR/EH size now. Most families have enough room with a car of a 2600mm wheelbase. This is similar to the VB commodores, TP magna, EH and latest corolla.

Great point... I think that "small" cars also offer a better use of interior space too, and these days it's not squashy in them at all... even a VW Polo or Fiesta has a reasonable amount of room for young couple with one young child.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Great point... I think that "small" cars also offer a better use of interior space too, and these days it's not squashy in them at all... even a VW Polo or Fiesta has a reasonable amount of room for young couple with one young child.

As long as the child is over 6 or the parents are under 5'5"....
Ever tried getting a baby capsule behind the drivers or passenger seat of a small car with the correct safety distance to the seat and sat in one? My knees are on the dash in a Mazda 3 which is almost a medium sized car inside...

[cool65]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

There's a lot more discretionary purchases. Novated leasing took care of that. That's why the swing with commodore and Falcon models is towards the higher spec models and not the fleet specials.

Residuals. If you're spending 40K on a car why bother buying a commodore omega or falcon XT which won't be worth squat at the end. (This is why the model mix is skewed towards XR6 and SS models at the moment they have better retained value.)

Going forward Holden and Ford need to focus on the things that matter which are:

1. Running costs (either advertising or new technologies ie: I4T)
2. Residuals
3. Dealer network.
4. Promoting the USP of their car. 6 or v8 performance with 4 cyl economy, a mileage marathon, heritage, ability to handle rough conditions etc.

When i was a litttle takka, most mates dad's were reps for someone or other, where the firms purchasing manager said here is your new car (insert ford/holden). Go out there and sell our product.
With leap forward in communications in 2010, customers mostly get p$ssed off seeing reps, and it's all done by fax/ phone/ teleconference etc. with tens of thousands of reps cars not required these days. As mentioned with novated leases, the purchasing manager just goes "you have $40k or $60k to spend" and the MULTI BRAND DEALERSHIPS (which most now are) just want your money as they no longer have the same brand loyalty to the manufacturers - read $$$ margin on imports !!
It used to be that you dealt with the same car sales guy for life and now it's a different faceless world out there kiddies.
Most threads on this forum dealing with car salesmen are negative and if we could just order the damn car over the internet w/o the b/s we would.

[eb2fairmont]

Originally Posted by cool65

It used to be that you dealt with the same car sales guy for life and now it's a different faceless world out there kiddies.
Most threads on this forum dealing with car salesmen are negative and if we could just order the damn car over the internet w/o the b/s we would.

Yup got it in one there too. I get ****ed with any telemarketing and hawking. Even though I might be interested or even want that product, soon as some pushy twit starts flapping thier chops I'm not interested.

[GT290]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

To suggest VW Golf is any different in regards to ability to drive fast on the open road is streching the truth a bit. Most euro cars will comfortably cruise at much higher speeds than Falcons and Commodores as they were designed from the onset for that kind of work.
You can drive any car at 140km/h and lose all your points very quickly, it has little to do with 4,5,6,or 8 cyl engine configuration.

Hell yeah, We had a wee spannish thing, was a cheapas chips hire car and we poked it along at 140 Klm with two of us and luggage no worries.

[GT290]

I sold my GT and purchased a Nissan Navara 4X4 six speed manual turbo desiel and wow, I am suprised at its performance. I had to do it for reasons I needed a horse I could work with as well as have some fun. So its off road fun for me and I can still get booked and lose my licence and its real compfy too!
I will say that the japs know how to build cars especially the 4x4 range.