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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
Lukeyson
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW
Posts: 2,580
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It's hard to ignore all the hyperbole that's going on at the moment regarding Ford and the RWD Falcon. But there;s more going on here that's of concern - and that is the Brand value of "Ford" and the "Falcon" have lost considerable value in the last few years.
Some questions and observations: (1) Why is the Mondeo selling so well in Europe and the Fusion in the US, and Australia can't sell any of them? It's not a different car. It's not up against any different type of competition. That the Focus and the Fiesta don't sell well indicate it's not a transient issue. Ford have a poor image in Australia. (2) The amount of Brand damage done to the Falcon in the last few weeks can't be measured right now, but you watch the sales plummet. The Brand strength of the Magna went seriously south due to speculation and media harrassment. When the brand is not strong, people don't go near it. Was that why they tried that last ditch brand switch to 380? I can see the logic and appreciate the effort. Perhaps it was just too slow to move. i wonder if this was the logic behind the G6 convention. So how can they fix this? (1) Quality: It's a long hard haul to get the Quality fixed, but even longer to get the message out. Has the damage been done? Is it time to rush Lincoln out to Australia to try and tell a quality story? Is it time to make more noise about the popularity of these cars in overseas markets, and pose the question to Australians "If people in Europe buy these cars, where the bloody hell are you Australia?" (2) Media: For heavens sake, engage the media better. Stop holding them at arms length and making them guess. Feed them more 'We might do this' or 'We could do that', even if it doesn't come to fruition, just so the media don't keep guessing for themselves and coming to the WORST conclusion rather than the best one. The Media have a big part to play in guiding the perspective if Australians and moulding the Brand - as much as they pretend otherwise. A long term commitment to treating the media better would go a long way to repairing the damange done. And make it Corporate Policy, and not just the whim of a CEO. (3) Why have Ford never released the 'Best' car that they could assemble from the parts they had before the G6ET - which even now misses out on sports suspension and LSD? Why were the BA/BF Fairmont Ghia's and Fairlanes only given the slow engines? Why were the XR's only given the poverty pack interiors? Why are Ford not trying to release something that's the best they can be?. (4) Get the top man in front of the media more often for real interviews - a man that seems honest and appears to be giving new information and not appear to be concealing information. Geoff Polites did this well. I think Marin does pretty well himself - if not often enough. Lukeyson
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If the human brain was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it. |
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#2 | |||
SiX_iN_a_RoW
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Capalaba Brisbane
Posts: 770
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Quote:
Mondeo is another term for, "Garbage car plagued with electrical faults" The new mondeo is a far cry from this
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Oh yeah, my G6ET eats diff bushes for breakfast! |
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#3 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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1. If they had the falcon in their markets too the mondeo wouldn't sell either!
2. Possibly, but i believe the falcon is a lot stronger than the magna. The magna was more often than not a poorly-built car really.
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Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
2006-2016: Regency Red 2000 AUII Ford Falcon Forte Automatic Sedan Tickford LPG "Millennium Falcon" |
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#4 | |||
as in chopped
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,991
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Quote:
Magna was/is better built than Falcon or Commodore. Our work fleet has had all of them and the Magnas have been the most reliable and aged the best (less rattles etc) Magna had an image problem - Not seen as a "drivers" car and only old men bought them. The Commodore and Falcon have a "Poorly built" perception with buyers.
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#5 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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#6 | ||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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Comments about the Magna = agreed. If old people buy them, there's a chance they have done their homework thoroughly.
Just looking at them at the wreckers shows a well engineered product. |
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#7 | |||
Fordaholic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 884
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#8 | |||
as in chopped
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,991
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Quote:
(although the timing belt change @ every 100,000k can hit your wallet) I believe in Kudos where it is due. Falcon AND Commodore are both struggling in reality - the volumes per month are low. The "Aussie Made" part both helps and HINDERS sales. "I will only ever buy Aussie Cars, they know how to build them for our conditions"...is changing to... "I don't think I'll buy another Aussie made car, had problems with them before, think I'll go Japanese or European this time, they look so much better built, more features etc" < - sad but true.
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#9 | |||
Fordaholic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 884
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Quote:
They fixed the cracking problem by recasting thicker blocks which is seven years too late. |
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gren A Waverrey
Posts: 2,367
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Quote:
Sure, the first model - TM was not great, and it wasn't until the TR whent he brand really became dependable, and TE when it was seriously a good car. I know many, many people who have owned Magnas after owning other vehicles such as Toyotas, and they have said that for interior comfort as well as general driving, the car gives them exactly what they want. They want a car that is reliable. They don't want to break speed records or drift. From that point of view, the Magna was a great car that had terrible styling at the very end, and a very poor run in the media.
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Practicing - Sleeping with a guitar in your hand counts, as long as you don't drop it. Don't snap my undies. |
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#11 | ||
Lukeyson
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW
Posts: 2,580
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So to reiterate points:
(1) Quality: I get the feeling that this will be addressed by the 'One Ford' approach. I already see others typing stories about Things Gone Wrong coming down considerably on the FG. It's been a focus of Ford in the US for awhile. It's getting this message out that will be the hard part. (2) Media: We keep coming back to this. Marketting, regular engagements, providing gossip and headlines, viral marketting. Ford need to get more positive reports in the media. When was the last time a spy shot actually produced bad results for them? (3) Product and Placement: Why do people like European cars now over Australian cars? Quality, Features, Perception. My comments regarding Ford not producing the best car they can produce from the parts they make is relevant. In the past they seem to have focussed on the cheap models and then dazzled them up to make the higher models. There was talk that Polites tried to get the BA built the other way round - by making the higher spec cars the best they could be and then having that filter down to the lower models. I don't think that really happened in any meaningful way until the FG - by which time the LWB had suffered. Making the LWB look like a longer XT did not help one bit. Given the success of the G6ET, what would a more visually differentiated Fairlane with the I6T have done? More than the G220? (4) Lead from the top: Such a big load to put on one man isn't it. If not the top man, then perhaps if there were someone else high up in the chain of command with enough charisma and presence to be in the media regularly. Ford needs a FACE. Lukeyson
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If the human brain was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it. |
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#12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,051
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#13 | |||
Fordaholic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 884
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#14 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,543
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i was recently given an fg loan car by my local dealer while my bf2 was having some warranty work done. ended up having it for 4 nights. i reset the trip computer when i got it and when i gave it back it was averaging a 10L/100km. ave speed of 40km/h. it was my first experience with an fg and i wasn't shy on the throttle, the first couple of drives.
for the size of them and what you get, they really are pretty good on the juice, given how well they go too. if you drove a smaller car (camry) in the same manner, i doubt it would return good numbers. it was only the 5sp too. i believe 6sp is even better. people that comment on how poor aussie cars are quite often haven't driven the latest offerings. |
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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I still think the Falcon name is very strong. The Taurus and Mondeo were much more damaged names in their home markets, now look at them.
Remember Ford are selling the Mondeo and Falcon side by side, not many other car companies have identically sized and priced cars in the same showroom. Most people looking at a family car at Ford will go with the Falcon, if the Falcon didnt exist the Mondeo would be selling better. |
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#16 | |||
Mr Polish
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Across the road from Speedway City
Posts: 1,977
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Quote:
ford have no idea how to market and seem to be too much of a tightarse to make top quality cars. Some of us will never buy a new car again, like myself. all on the world market now is garbage and too conservative. the days of real cars are gone. Couldnt give two hoots about ford or any other car company, they are all bastards.
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Detailology colour fx detail studio and R&D Lab SA's leader in auto detailing and paint treatments |
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#17 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,073
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I totally agree with the poor brand image, I told a workmate a few years ago that the 6sp auto gearbox he has in his BMW is in the Falcon and he replies with "Oh god, does that mean it'll break soon?"
We were going home from work another time and I pointed out a Ford Territory and the Boss' wife replies "Its just a dirty Ford". Another time at school I was sitting in a spare talking about cars and one of the girls who came and sat at our table just started having a go at Ford saying how crap they are because they are "unreliable" and that "Every time you see a car with smoke coming out from under its bonnet on the side of the road its a Ford". It seems everyone hates Ford, especially people who don't know much about cars. Also walking fingers didn't exactly help, I remember being all phyched up for the release of the FG Falcon and I saw that ad... |
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#18 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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I actually always thought that importing the Mondeo was wrong, coming from Belgium it must not make a lot of money for Ford.
All the millions in advertising, dealer training, spare parts, workshops, import costs, ADR compliance costs to bring the Mondeo over to not sell that many. And if you look at this site many Mondeo buyers cross shopped it with the Falcon, or traded in a Falcon. So they spent all this money to get a car which competes with another Ford! It is a great car but it does take sales from the Falcon. Imagine if they had put this money into the Falcon wagon, perhaps the Falcon would be the country's biggest selling car... |
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#19 | ||
Meep Meep
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southside
Posts: 1,513
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They ran a Focus campaign based on its sales domination in Europe. No effect.
I think for a long time Fords MD's have recongnised the decline in non-Falcon markets and have each made attempts to rectify individually with little success. I fear that the biggest hurdle for other segments is the Falcon brand. For every customer that walks through the door because of Falcon, one walks past to avoid it. Heres my answers 1) Quality is difficult to measure, Toyota made their reputation based on Lux's and Cruisers in the Ag/Mining market. If Ford is serious they should bring back F-Trucks. Rather than selling these vehicles in the traditional sense they should one up Toymota. e.g. sell vehicles with recommended spare lists, liftime operating cost breakdowns, field service and recovery manuals, factory fire suppression kits, underground approved vehicles etc. etc. 2) XP style reliability trials. Give the media something they can sensationalise and then see how quick they change their tune. Re-enforces point 1 at the same time. 3) I think its been stated before that FoA have gone "zero-risk" in their operations.
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Thundering on.... |
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#20 | ||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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I can't quatify it, but I think there are two big elephants in the room that are going to be constant blockers to Ford reaching the heights of it's endeavours.
As sacrosanct as they are to some I thing the Blue Oval insignia and the dominant Ford name itself carriy negative legacies and are constant reminders of the godaweful truth our local makes were over priced and second rate come the Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, etc invasion. |
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#21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,451
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There have been lots of attempts and theories on here about why Ford is not gaining any real market share and why one strategy after another seems to have little long term impact.
The things I always note. The dealer network is still there and doing what they have always done for the past thirty years… helping lots of people find a reason to walk away from the brand. Ford needs to decide if it wants to stay in Australia and sell cars (imported or local) and if the answer is yes, it just needs to pay the bastards out and get rid of them. New franchise agreements with real controls on quality of service. Ford themselves have never made a car that wasn't in tolerance. Many that weren't to customers tolerances, but not the factories. In other words Ford doesn't stand by its products, it doesn't recall cars when it should (Territory, Falcons), pretends nothing is wrong when the media get a hold of quality and build issues and rarely puts the customer first, when clearly a car is just not fit for purpose. Finally neither the company or the dealers think long term like the Japanese. It’s make a buck today and to hell with what the customer will think tomorrow. So you screwed them over with that Falcon diff or Terri ball joints. How can there be any consequences for the brand for doing that? |
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#22 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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Quote:
I honestly think that buyers dont mind if car makers admit a mistake and do something about it, its when car makers try to pass the buck or dont own up then you lose the customers. It reminds me of when Lexus first released the LS400 in the US. Probably one of the most important launches in Japanese motoring history. This product was supposed to be the highest quality car in the world and finally a car the Japanese could challenge the Germans with. After years of development the car was released, but embarassingly it was discovered that there was a potential issue with the high mounted stop light. Lexus had to fix it. So what did they do with this embarassing mistake? Instead of telling owners to bring their car in or wait to the next service, they sent a technician out to the home or office of every Lexus LS400 owner in the US to fix the problem. Whilst there the technician checked over the rest of the car and asked the owners if there were any issues they had. In one case an old lady didnt know how to work the memory settings on the passenger seat, the technician explained and set the ideal position for the seat for the lady. They have bought 3 Lexuses since. This level of service concreted the loyalty of a generation of Lexus owners. Lexus turned a very embarassing glitch into a marketing masterstroke. If you look after customers they will keep coming back, dosnt matter if your selling $80 airplane tickets or $50,000 Falcons. Last edited by Brazen; 22-01-2010 at 03:58 PM. |
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#24 | |||
Meep Meep
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southside
Posts: 1,513
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Quote:
God forbid when they had a recall on Hiluxs 2 were over 500k from a dealer, when we asked for them to send out the part and service bulletin the dealer made it out we were involved in an industrial espionage ring and would void our warranties and take legal action if we fitted the new bonnent clip ourselves. Muppets absolute muppets.
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Thundering on.... |
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#25 | |||
Formely FG G6E Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,694
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Quote:
I think people miss the point, Ford isn't about making the Best car it can with the parts available, it's about making the most profit for it's shareholders that it can.
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Formerly G6E Turbo, BF XR8 |
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#26 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 957
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I think it also comes back to the country of origin for which the product/car is made.
When people think Japanese/German built products, eg whipper snippers, tools, cars ect ect, they instantly associated “quality” to that product, simply because it has been made from said country. On the other hand, perception is Chinese made products are cheap, nasty, poor quality ect ect. For example, myself and a female friend were watching TV, and a Great Wall ad came on. Female friend, even though she has never driven the Great Wall car advertised, instantly dismissed the car as poor quality, cheap rubbish. The same practice is found on these forums (and many others) as well. This same perception is somewhat associated with Ford Australia. |
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#27 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,543
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Quote:
go out and compare apples with apples. what japanese car offers the more features than the aussie equivalent? its perception, and old style thinking. my experiences with ford - ea, eb, ef, el, ba, bf2 and fg have all been extremely positive, as has my experience with dealers. just because you read it on fordforums doesn't mean it is rife throughout the industry. as many members as there are on here, it is still a fairly small cross section of the actual market. |
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#28 | |||
Fordaholic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 884
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#29 | ||
as in chopped
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,991
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I think the problem is that buyers ARE comparing apples and choosing something other than a Falcon or Commodore.
People are buying Mazdas, VWs, Hyundais etc I reckon the Aussie cars are easily the best value for what you get, but give them 5 years and see which brands are still holding up rattle free. No point being a fan if it means you can't see the obvious.
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#30 | |||
Fordaholic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 884
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Quote:
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